Niche Team Screwup?

[Catmonkey]

I'm in the process of changing out my short block from what ended up being a blown head gasket. After a loss in compression in the 7 and 8 cylinders, I knew the engine had to come out and it was going to go back together with better components. When FRPP announced the part number for the '13 5.8 aluminum block, I opted to go that route.

Here's a pic of the head gasket on the engine. The top part of the gasket is what gave way and left a nasty looking spot on the head at the break.

While I was in the process of stripping down the heads so I could have them resurfaced, I spotted this little faux pas.

For those of you that might not be familiar with engines, there is only one keeper on the valve retainer on the exhaust valve in the center of the photo. There should be two. I managed to find the other keeper in the pan. While it may be possible for this to have happened while running, it would be pretty rare. This engine only has 4,000 miles on it and hasn't been over-revved. Not something you want to see in these high-dollar engines. Once the cam followers are in place you'd never see this. Lucky I didn't drop a valve.

 

[Van@RevanRacing]

Wow. Definitely a rarity to see something like this. Looks like you definitely got lucky not dropping a valve.

 

[enormous]

I doubt it was the engine builder fault, check the keeper and top valve for potential hidden faults duing the manufacturing stage.

 

[Tob]

I believe the cylinder heads are already assembled (cams, springs, valves, keepers, etc) elsewhere and then delivered on pallets to the niche line. They've been inspected and tagged as ok....note photo.

The paint daubs indicate what was checked...

 

[PistolWhip]

Is the valve stem head notched or did the retainer landing break? That's crazy... Those bad boys are under some serious pressure to stay put. You have aftermarket cams? Is it possible that over revving and floating the valves could release enough tension to let that bitch sneak out?

 

[me32]

So what mods are on the car? It doesn't look like a issues from being put together.

 

[Catmonkey]

I believe the cylinder heads are already assembled (cams, springs, valves, keepers, etc) elsewhere and then delivered on pallets to the niche line. They've been inspected and tagged as ok....note photo.

I wondered about that aspect as well. We know they did it that way in 2006.

 

[Catmonkey]

Is the valve stem head notched or did the retainer landing break? That's crazy... Those bad boys are under some serious pressure to stay put. You have aftermarket cams? Is it possible that over revving and floating the valves could release enough tension to let that bitch sneak out?

I have not taken the spring/retainer apart yet. I won't look at them again until I get the torx plus set I ordered to be able to remove the cams. Why Ford puts one odd-ball sized torx screw on one of the cam tower bolts for each cam caught me off guard.

The keeper from the pan looks fine. There's not a mark on it to indicate it was pinched or installed incorrectly. Obviously it was part of the head at the time of installation, but if the heads are supplied to the niche team with the cam followers installed, you'd never be able to see the keepers.

Since I took delivery of the car, the valve covers have never been off this engine. Mods prior to the compression loss were a VMP TVS, 65mm CJ throttle body, larger injectors a BAP and a 123mm CAI. Like I said, I've never over reved the engine and the motor has never hit the limiter. I did make threee runs at the Texas mile, but kept revs to 6,000 rpm.

 

[PistolWhip]

Interesting. I can't wait to see the head of that valve. I'm betting that its a manufacturing defect and the keeper landing is either too shallow or broken.

 

[Tob]

I wondered about that aspect as well. We know they did it that way in 2006.

And still do.

M5lp 1301 15 Trinity 5 8 Build Shelby Gt500 Engine Romeos Delight Photo 14

 

[fullboogie]

I can't imagine how that thing hung together with one keeper - you are one lucky mofo. I have never seen that before.

 

[Catmonkey]

And still do.

M5lp 1301 15 Trinity 5 8 Build Shelby Gt500 Engine Romeos Delight Photo 14

I guess that gets the Niche Team off the hook.

 

[kozumasbullitt]

I have not taken the spring/retainer apart yet. I won't look at them again until I get the torx plus set I ordered to be able to remove the cams. Why Ford puts one odd-ball sized torx screw on one of the cam tower bolts for each cam caught me off guard.

The keeper from the pan looks fine. There's not a mark on it to indicate it was pinched or installed incorrectly. Obviously it was part of the head at the time of installation, but if the heads are supplied to the niche team with the cam followers installed, you'd never be able to see the keepers.

Since I took delivery of the car, the valve covers have never been off this engine. Mods prior to the compression loss were a VMP TVS, 65mm CJ throttle body, larger injectors a BAP and a 123mm CAI. Like I said, I've never over reved the engine and the motor has never hit the limiter. I did make threee runs at the Texas mile, but kept revs to 6,000 rpm.

Do you have an idea why the gasket let go? I have your same mods and posts like this always gets me thinking that I am on borrowed time.

 

[Catmonkey]

No, I don't. I ran the car at the Texas Mile in October of last year. When I got back from Texas, I drove my truck for a day or two and noticed coolant under the car. It was obvious that the coolant reservoir level was low and when I unscrewed the cap, it came back up quite a bit, as though it was under a lot of pressure. I noticed it didn't idle as smooth after driving for a week or so and removed the plugs. The electrode on no. 8 was melted. After I changed plugs, the idle was still off and the car started throwing a misfire code on no. 7 several days later.

At that point I performed a compression test and 7 and 8 were ~100 psi each. Bad tune, not enough octane or some other glitch coupled with running the engine at WOT for ~30 seconds on three mile runs obviously resulted in this mishap. If I had it to do over again, I'd have done a lot more data logging with the combination.

I wish I could tell you what the problem was, but I'd only be speculating. I see a few specs on the exhaust valve, probably from the electrode, but no other tell tale marks of detonation or overheating. I always said if I broke it, I'd build it back better, so that's what's going on now. There's no way to tell how much is too much, because each motor is going to have it's Achilles's heel. But if you turn up the wick, you have to expect something like this is possible.