Oil & filter

eagle eye

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Trying to help a buddy out with his 2013 Boss.
He's not sure what oil he should use for his first oil change and whether he should use the FL500 or the FL820s.
What are most going with?

Thanks for the advice
 

F.D.Sako

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My understanding is, if he is not going to track the car, then the additional capacity is not necessary.

I use the 500 when DDing, and plan to switch to 820 with an additional qrt of oil, over the full line, before track events.
 

eagle eye

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My understanding is, if he is not going to track the car, then the additional capacity is not necessary.

I use the 500 when DDing, and plan to switch to 820 with an additional qrt of oil, over the full line, before track events.

We are both attending an open track event next week at Watkins Glen.
I'll be driving my Shelby and he his Boss.We both want fresh fluids before we hit the track.

Are you saying that the FL500 has less oil capacity than the FL820s?
I know that the 820 is larger in diameter but the 500 is a longer filter.
I don't think either one holds an entire quart of oil.

I'm going with the Ford Racing filter (820) but I don't believe Ford Racing makes a FL500
 

chefron50

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I went with the ford racing 820,built very strong,kind of heavy for an oil filter but good quality,went with 5-50 redline oil,ester base is great if your engine gets hot. My opinion is that is the best oil but cost just alittle bit more,had to buy it by the gallon so my next oil change I will only need to buy 2 gallons,not 3 this time.
 

F.D.Sako

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eagle eye, disregard what i said. I wasn't aware there was a ford racing version of the FL820 lol
 

UnleashedBeast

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The FL820 will not hold an entire quart of oil more than the FL500. You'd be lucky to see a 1/4 quart difference in capacity. Ford Racing's 820 filter is strong, but still has inferior media when compared to Royal Purple's 820 and Amsoil's EaO11 oil filters.

I went with the ford racing 820,built very strong,kind of heavy for an oil filter but good quality,went with 5-50 redline oil,ester base is great if your engine gets hot. My opinion is that is the best oil but cost just alittle bit more,had to buy it by the gallon so my next oil change I will only need to buy 2 gallons,not 3 this time.

I'd remove Red Line 5W-50 from my engine immediately. All 50 grade lubricants that never shear to a lighter grade show elevated levels of lead ppm wear in the UOA sample. 50 grade lubricants in this engine are overkill, even on the road course. Motorcraft 5W-50 rapidly shears to a light 40 grade lubricant in only 1,500 miles or less. It's a good thing too, because lead wear increases when 50 grade viscosity lubricants are used in this engine.

It's far better to use a true synthetic 10W-40 that will retain the proper viscosity at all times, regardless of miles used, at the same time keeping lead wear ppm in check. Motorcraft in virgin form actually specs like a 20W-50, not a 5W-50. Therefore, a true synthetic 10W-40 has far better cold flow characteristics.

This has been documented in the GT500 engine for the past 3 years. It was my assumption in 2010 that Red Line 5W-50 would be a far better choice than Motorcraft 5W-50 in the GT500. I couldn't have been more wrong.
 
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darreng505

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It was my assumption in 2010 that Red Line 5W-50 would be a far better choice than Motorcraft 5W-50 in the GT500. I couldn't have been more wrong.

This is exactly why you shouldn't be doling out advice for oil on a car you don't even own.


Trying to help a buddy out with his 2013 Boss.
He's not sure what oil he should use for his first oil change and whether he should use the FL500 or the FL820s.
What are most going with?

Thanks for the advice

Don't listen to people saying you can get away with lesser weight oil - because they did it and drove to Walmart and claim everything is "just fine".

Be smart. Use what is recommended and maintain your warranty. Unless you have a dedicated track car or plan on racing just stick to the book and you'll be fine.

The oil is the most important part of the car. Don't take advice from people who don't even drive bosses.
 

UnleashedBeast

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darreng05,

Still drinking the ol' Ford koolaid I see. Do me a favor. Use Motorcraft 5W-50, drive it on the street for 1,000 to 1,500 miles, then go do a road course racing event. Extended session is OK.

You will be fine, even with oil that has sheared to a light 40 grade lubricant.

Would you like me to post high lead ppm oil samples from cars using 5W-50 Red Line in their GT500 engines?

Science and testing showed that 5W-50 Red Line was not the better option in the GT500. Your "Boss" engine will be no different. Trust me, just test the oil after 2,000+ miles of use with racing, and we shall see.
 
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TRDon

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Stop trying to cloud this thread with facts UB. /sarcasm

I haven't been here very long, but I got darrengs number. Just another know it all Internet superhero who throws his opinion as fact everywhere he can.

Do the research as I have and you will see that UB has a great handle on the subject and it would be smart to heed his advice.
 

eagle eye

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I'm certainly no expert on engine oil / filters and I know everyone is entitled to their opinion but I just finished changing my engine oil and brake fluid.
I decided to go with the Motorcraft 5w-50 and the Ford Racing OF.
On the back of each container of Motorcraft 5w-50 it states that is specificly designed for the Ford GT and the Shelby GT500.
I guess you can take that for what it is but I'm ok with my decision. Got a decent price on the oil from the dealer. $8.44 gt.

My neighbor went to the SVT gathering in Dearborn last month and had signed up for a bunch of activities, (dinner with Jamal, test track, tour of the engine assy. plant, etc) and during his tour of the 5.8 assembly plant, he spoke with one of the senior engine builders and he said that (I no this isn't the coyote engine) he highly recommended using the Redline 5w50 engine oil after a 500 mile breakin. He also stated that these engines will last "forever" if left unmodded.
Just my 2cents
 

UnleashedBeast

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Stop trying to cloud this thread with facts UB. /sarcasm

I haven't been here very long, but I got darrengs number. Just another know it all Internet superhero who throws his opinion as fact everywhere he can.

Do the research as I have and you will see that UB has a great handle on the subject and it would be smart to heed his advice.

LOL @ your first sentence. :lol1:

Thank you for the last one. :beer:

he spoke with one of the senior engine builders and he said that (I no this isn't the coyote engine) he highly recommended using the Redline 5w50 engine oil after a 500 mile breakin. He also stated that these engines will last "forever" if left unmodded.

I'm going guess the engine builder also follows Ford's advice on grade, then makes the next conclusion to use Red Line 5W-50 instead, because it is in fact better formulated.

However, this was the same assumption I/We had in the GT500 section 3 years ago. After testing, the evidence revealed it was a mistake. Since Red Line never sheared from a 50 grade, like Motorcraft does, elevated levels of lead ppm were noticed in the UOA.

Other noticeable traits of Red Line 5W-50 were decreased engine efficiency (mpg) and sluggish cold morning starting.
 

Tyler72

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Oh Lord...

Here we go again.

All I will say is that used oil analysis don't lie, & I will never pour a bottle of motorcraft oil in my car again. It's Amsoil from here on out as long as I own it.
 

ace72ace

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All the Boss Mustangs at Track Attack are using Lucas Oil, big sponsorship at MMP. They beat on these cars every day and haven't lost 1 engine in almost 2 years.
 

eagle eye

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What weight engine oil does the Boss use, 5w-50?

It appears that there is difference of opinions in regards to the Redline oil.
The engine builder from Ford that assembles the 5.8s, knows a lot more about this topic than I do and perhaps more than most on this forum.
Maybe the 5.0 has different requirements.
 

UnleashedBeast

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Eagle Eye, let me tell you something. I have had "lubricant discussions" with ASE certified techs a dime a dozen. Every one of them looks at me like a deer in the headlights when I talk. They are clueless about engine lubrication.

I expect them (assemblers) to know nothing more about the oil recommendation for the 5.4L & 5.8L engines than they do (techs). Why, because even Michael @ L&M engines has excessive oil pressure issues using 10W-30 oil. What does that tell you? 5W-50 recommendation for the Ford GT, Condor, Trinity, Roadrunner, and Track Pack GT is a JOKE!

It's marketing 101. Recommend a product that is only supplied by your company to maximize profits. Now, before any of you say, "Red Line, Mobil 1, and Castrol offer 5W-50". None of them carry Ford's certification code. Castrol dropped the certification about two years ago. "Monopoly"

If Ford stated that using any other lubricant than Motorcraft 5W-50 would void your warranty, they would have to supply it to all owners for free. Thanks to the Magnuson-Moss act. However, they tactfully use the word "recommended", because Ford's bean counters aren't ignorant enough to fall in that money pit.
 
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kcbrown

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It's marketing 101. Recommend a product that is only supplied by your company to maximize profits. Now, before any of you say, "Red Line, Mobil 1, and Castrol offer 5W-50". None of them carry Ford's certification code. Castrol dropped the certification about two years ago. "Monopoly"

If Ford stated that using any other lubricant than Motorcraft 5W-50 would void your warranty, they would have to supply it to all owners for free. Thanks to the Magnuson-Moss act. However, they tactfully use the word "recommended", because Ford's bean counters aren't ignorant enough to fall in that money pit.

I would be more inclined to give weight to this argument if the track pack GTs, Boss 302, and GT500 cars were more plentiful, but the plain fact of the matter is that relative to the Mustang population in general, they're rare.

The Mustangs which dominate the population by far are the ones that spec 5W20 and WSS-M2C930-A, for which Ford does not have a monopoly on the "recommended" oil.

As such, the profit motive for Ford's recommended oil in the track pack GTs, Boss 302, and GT500 engines doesn't really hold much water.


Is Ford's oil going to be the best oil you can possibly put into those engines? Probably not. Is it going to be sufficiently good to allow those engines to last well beyond the powertrain warranty limits even when the car in question is tracked heavily? Almost certainly so.


The question isn't which lubricant is the best you can possibly put into the engine. It's whether or not Ford's 5W50 will work well for these engines under the demands of heavy tracking. What evidence do you have that it will not?


Oh, and lest you believe that there is some sort of consensus amongst those who track their cars heavily (which can include actual racing) about which motor oil works best in these engines, there doesn't seem to be. For instance, Rehagen Racing says they've gotten the best results with Motorcraft 5W50, an opinion that frankly took me by surprise given the discussion on that oil I've seen in the past. It may be that their experience is relatively unique, but the point here is that there is variation in the opinions of those who actually go out there and heavily track their cars, and there are some who, through their experience, seem to like Ford's oil more than the others they've tried. That, at the very least, is sufficient to call into question your stated opinion about Motorcraft 5W50, which seems to be worse than the evidence suggests it perhaps should be. That's not to say that the evidence is that it's the best oil going -- far from it -- but the views you've expressed of that oil would have others believe that it's junk, and I'm quite skeptical that said view is objectively justifiable.

Finally, note that I've no skin in this game. I go wherever the evidence and logic actually lead. Those of us who wish to maximize the warranty protection on our cars are going to give heavy consideration towards the use of Ford's 5W50 oil for that reason alone, so we really do care about whether or not it is "good enough" and whether or not there are significant long-term consequences of using it.
 
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