Please help solving fuel(?) issues. I've tried many things already. I can't figure it out

TermiCustomer

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I bought my 2003 Cobra in late June. About 60k miles. It was running fine for the approximately 10 days of driving it over the course of about a month. The car sat for a week in the garage while I was on vacation. Possibly relevant mods are 2.3 Whipple, 2 LB lower, 3 inch upper, Lund Tune, 60 LB injectors, K&N Cold Air Intake FIPK, an Accufab Throttle Body, a Kenne Bell Boost a Pump. Catless X Pipe, with code for cats turned off in tune. Tuned for 93 octane. Previous owner told me to set the BAP to full rich (50). I apologize for the wall of text, but I really, really do hope someone can help me. I want to give as much detail as I possible can. It's really frustrating owning a car for a few months and having it towed home 3 times.

Timeline:
8/19 - After sitting for a week in the garage, it starts up on the third try.
8/24- On a ~100 mile drive home from a day trip, with a few mild pulls along the way, 90 F outside, the engine starts sputtering, AFR gauge starts shooting up. I manage to get it over to the shoulder of the highway. Jump from "battery jumper" turns the car on, but attempts to pull away result in engine sputtering and dying, multiple times. Jump start from a flatbed will not turn the car on. Just clicks. Car towed home. Battery read 11.99 V. Battery switched out for a battery from a friend's truck, just to test alternator. Car started on truck's battery, but voltage went down. Seemed to be alternator failure.
9/24- After waiting nearly a month for my J2 Fabrication alternator, install alternator, install Big 3 Wire upgrade, install heat shield between alternator and exhaust, install cooling duct to run from front bumper aimed up toward alternator. Startup car via jumper cable, let it idle for a little while, then turn car off. Had no time to drive it.
9/28 -Startup and it runs and drives fine...for 2 blocks. Car sputtered and died again. Jump from friend's car does not work. Only clicks. Installed new Champion 59-590CH battery. Car turned on, but then sputtered and died again. Codes read were for fuel pump and fuel rail pressure sensor. Ordered 2 new fuel rail pressure sensors (1 for backup). Car towed home again.
10/6- Install a new FRPS and a Kenne Bell FRPS disc. Starts on second attempt. 12.5V off, 14.5V running. But then the AFR goes all the way up after about 5 minutes, and the engine sputters and dies. Change out fuel pump fuse under hood for a new one, though the old one was not blown. Same thing occurs. Change FRPS to the second new one. This time, starts and runs for a while, take it out of garage, go about 3/4 down the driveway, and it sputters and dies again. Get it started again, make it around the block, but sputters and dies again in the driveway. Push back into garage. Disconnect MAF connector and blow into the electrical connections. Disconnect IAC connector and blow into the electrical connections. Undo negative terminal on battery and reconnect it. Starts up and runs fine. Take it around the block, then on a short drive around the neighborhood to friends house. Stop inside friend's house for a while. Come back outside, car turns on, but sputters and dies after about a minute. When trying to start it this next time, I listen for the fuel pump this time as I turn the key to accessory on. A few times turning the key with no fuel pump priming sound, but then on the ~4th try, I hear the pump prime, and it starts fine. I drive it straight home to the garage.
10/7- Check 30A fuse in BAP. Looks a little dirty, but not blown. Change it for a fresh fuse. Set key to accessory a number of times, it seems like it is priming the fuel pump every time. Start the car and let it run for a while, about 10 minutes or so. Turn it off and repeat. It stays running each time. Try taking it around the block. Sometimes it sputters under throttle, sometimes it does not. Pull back into garage. Order new fuel filter, and factory style Carter P76130S fuel pump assembly.
10/19- Take down fuel tank, install new fuel filter Motorcraft FG 986B. Old one was very dirty. Attempt to install new fuel pump assembly. The tiny plastic tab on sending unit breaks. Attempt to bond the plastic with JB Weld Plastic Bonder. Leave it to dry overnight. Attempt to install again, the tab breaks again. Try JB Weld Plastic Weld. Leave it to try for about an hour. This time, stick sender "arm" in first, then push the end of it into sending unit. Seems like it held and did not break off. Get everything back together. First time priming the fuel pump it sounded very different. Like a buildup of resistance. Starts up and runs fine for a while. Fuel gauge reads about 1/4, though there is about 1/2 in the tank. Give it a few light revs to about 2000 RPM, but instead of returning to idle of about 800 RPM, it hangs up at 1250-1500 RPM. IAC valve cleaned with 'parts cleaner' and MAF sensor cleaned with MAF cleaner. That was not enough. Throttle cable sprayed with a tiny amount of 'parts cleaner' near the throttle body. That solved the idle issue at the time. Go to fill up gas at nearby station. Tank reads at E even when full. So either the plastic tab broke again in install, the gas melted the Plastic Weld, or the sending unit itself was damaged in install. Whatever, I can deal with using my trip odometer as my means of knowing roughly how much fuel I have left, until it becomes annoying. Do some driving around the neighborhood, no issues.
10/27 - Started up on first try, however fuel pump did not have the same kind of buildup of resistance sound as it did on the first startup with the new pump assembly. Did some errands, started up and ran fine at each stop.
10/28 - Attempt to pull car out of garage to give space to change oil. Car turns over but will not catch. Changed fuel pump fuse under hood to a 30A, according to some recommendations on this forum when running a BAP. Put in new 20A fuses under dash for CCRM and Fuel Pump. Still no luck. Ordered new CCRM.
11/3- Installed new CCRM. Car started right up. Idle a bit high, about 1250 RPM. Turn car off. Oil change for Mobil1 Full Synthetic 5W30, Mobil1 M1-210A Oil Filter. Do a few trips around the block, then a short neighborhood drive. While making one turn in 1st gear, the car sputters. I pull over, and it sputters more and dies. I wait a minute. It starts on the second attempt. I do some more driving in the neighborhood, about 15 minutes worth, then head home. Order new Idle Air Control valve, thinking it may solve high idle RPM. Go back out later to run some errands, no issues.
11/4 - Go for first proper drive on highway. About 2 hours worth of driving, making stops about every 30 minutes to do errands. Starts and runs fine every time. Feels fine at half-3/4 throttle on highway. AFR about 15-16 at idle. On highway AFR shoots up to unreadable after getting off the throttle for a few seconds, then returns to about 14. About 12-13 on heavy but not full throttle. Come home. Let the car rest for about 5 hours, then do another 2 hours of straight highway driving with no problem.
11/7- Run some errands, starts, runs fine. Full throttle all is well.
11/9- 2 hours of straight highway driving, nonstop. Starts, runs fine. All is well.
11/10- I do not hear fuel pump prime. But the car starts and runs fine. 30 minute drive to the day's activity, runs fine, all is well. Car sits for about 3 hours. Go out for a spirited drive for about 15 minutes. I do not hear fuel pump prime. But the car starts and runs fine. Let it warm up for a few minutes. About 10 minutes into the drive, a minute after a 3/4 throttle pull, the car sputters in 3rd gear. I pull over, put it in neutral and it dies. Give it a minute. Start it up again, it's ok. Drive it about another 10 minutes then return to day's activity. Car sits about 3 more hours. Go to leave day's activity, I do not hear fuel pump prime. I let the car warm up for a few minutes in the ~35 F weather. I try to pull away and the car sputters and dies. Service Engine light on dash, with Fuel pump and FRPS codes on my tuner. Change the Idle Air Control Valve for the new one. Doesn't help. Try disconnecting and reconnecting the negative on the battery to reset the IAC valve, doesn't help. Try blowing into MAF, MAF connectors, and IAC connectors. Doesn't help. Try changing all fuses under dash and under hood that are related to fuel pump, CCRM or PCM. Doesn't help. Disconnect and reconnect negative to try to reset what the fuses affect. Doesn't help. Car towed home.
 

blownstang4.6

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Sounds like the only thing you haven't changed is the bap and fpdm. It's hooked up prefpdm I'm guessing since you have it turned all the way up? Bap don't fail often but it can happen.
 

c6zhombre

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Get a laptop and handheld tuner so you can datalog
Trash that worthless factory hat and get a Fore setup
Pulley that blower down to a safer boost level, that is way too much boost
Get a retune if necessary

That would be a start. Honestly, sounds like you're making near 20psi of boost on pump gas, and have had bigtime fuel delivery issues and have kept driving it.....I'm going to be surprised if there isn't internal damage by now to the motor. I hope not.
 

cj428mach

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Get a laptop and handheld tuner so you can datalog
Trash that worthless factory hat and get a Fore setup
Pulley that blower down to a safer boost level, that is way too much boost
Get a retune if necessary

That would be a start. Honestly, sounds like you're making near 20psi of boost on pump gas, and have had bigtime fuel delivery issues and have kept driving it.....I'm going to be surprised if there isn't internal damage by now to the motor. I hope not.

I agree with this. I assume the tune is ok, but you really need to know whats going on with the car when it dies and datalogging will tell you that.
 

SVTdreamin04

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I would want to know what your fuel pressure is at the rail when the fuel pumps do run. You've blown a fuse or two, can't remember from the book you wrote, which is great by the way. But that is the one thing I don't see here. I would invest in an electronic gauge you can put in the car so you can see it real time.


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03' White Snake

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Bypass the BAP and try it. Obv do not hammer on it. Some cars do not like BAPS. Especially in hot climates. Had a similar issue in July heat down in SC with my car. Was eating FRPS like crazy, even with the KB disc installed. Some would pop just cranking the car over. Called my tuner and he said to bypass the BAP. I did and had no issues the rest of the week. Back in my cooler climate the BAP was fine.

If this fixes your issues, the cheapest way to fix it would be to step up to GT pumps. An expensive way to fix it would be to go Full return fuel system.
 

xsellr8

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I would say look over all the wiring on the BAP and upgrade the fpdm to a black306 one unless you decide to go return fuel system
 

bigmoose

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BAPs are known to kill stock FPDMs. My old returnless setup with a BAP had this issue. Similar symptoms as you. I ended up replacing the FPDM with an upgraded one from black306. That worked fine until I went full return and never looked back.
 

CobraBob

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As you can see, going to a full return fuel system, while not cheap, is a solid upgrade. If you can swing the cost, you'll be happier in the long run with it. I've never been a big fan of the BAP, as I much prefer a solid upgrade vs. a fix to the stock fuel system.

I hope you soon come to a conclusion with your fuel issues. You've had quite a battle there. You definitely should bypass the BAP to confirm your fuel issues are related to it. Then decide on whether you want to ditch it and go with the full return fuel system. Black Friday is just around the corner, so maybe you can find a good deal on one.
 

c6zhombre

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Let's not just completely throw the BAP under the bus.....I have a BAP that has worked in conjunction for over ten years delivering far more fuel demand than this gas setup the OP is relying on.

The difference is, all the other components are upgraded and designed to work as a complete system. So, that means the Fore returnless fuel hat, the modified FPDMs, the upgraded wiring, etc. The BAP has never been an issue.

But as time has gone by.....state of the art return systems for these cars have become so good, and packaged so well by companies like Fore.....trying to engineer a custom returnless system like my car has is no longer necessary or cost effective.

I will say this again......get rid of that factory hat immediately. Call Fore or get in contact with posters on this forum that deal Fore products and can piece you together a state of the art fuel system. You do not want to gamble a $10,000 motor over a $1500 fuel system. Upgrade your fuel system to modern return and eliminate all these headaches and being stranded on the side of the road spending money for tows. Get an updated tune. Pulley down that boost to 18 psi.
 

SVTdreamin04

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There is some solid advice on here! Take it and run with it. The fuel system is the one place where people try to spend the least amount of money as they possibly can.

I like my deadhead return setup.....actually, I love it. No fuel issues to deal with anymore. I love my in tank Aeromotive eliminator pump also. It's loud, but it works!

Go return and be happy!


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TermiCustomer

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Thanks for the advice, everyone.

What exactly do I do to bypass the BAP?

I have a new factory style FPDM arriving today.

I will try bypassing the BAP to see if it will at least run without the BAP. Then if it does not run, I will switch out the FPDM for the new one.

I'm going to go with an Aeroforce Interceptor with fuel pressure and oil pressure connections, to keep an eye on pressures.

It's on 19 psi, so I think a 3.25 upper will take me down to a safer ~17 psi. At this point, I am more than ok losing a bit of power in order to increase reliability. Plan is to buy a JLT fender well High Boost CAI with 2600 or 3000 MAF to help keep the IAT down, get the car tuned for the larger pulley and the new CAI together.

I am still deciding whether to go with upgraded FPDM, dual FPDM, or a return setup. Since I have absolutely no desire for more power, and am actually going to be decreasing it with the larger upper pulley, would the Lethal "Budget" System be sufficient? If so, what pumps should I go for to match the ~550-600 WHP?
 

03' White Snake

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To bypass the BAP, simple remove the red power wires from the BAP to the wires in the FPDM harness and reconnect the 2 wires together in the FPDM harness. I believe my BAP was wired into the brown with pink strip wire.

I ran a dual FPDM setup with improved GT pumps and was making over 600 to the wheels without a BAP. No experience with the budget kit. I pieced together my own return fuel system and did not buy a kit. -10 feed and -8 return, with 2 465 pumps.
 

TermiCustomer

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Ok, I'm a bit lost here. This is what it looks like. It seems it is simultaneously set up for both having a Hobbs switch and not having a Hobbs switch.
1.jpg
2.jpg
3.jpg
4.jpg
 

GM2Ford

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Could I please get some help with what exactly I am disconnecting and connecting from where, based on the photos?

That relay isn’t factory, the connector next to it isn’t factory and the BAP isn’t factory. Start by removing that system first and returning to your factory FPDM controlling the fuel.

Decrease the boost via pulleys and then start by either rewiring that nest @BAP or remove that system all together. I’d probably start with the basics and remove that system then try to run the car. This way, you can rule things out. If you’re running minimal boost and aren’t worried about every ounce of power, you’ll be more than fine on the stock system for your diagnosis.

If you decide to do remove everything, don’t go crazy, take your time and make sure factory wires return to there original location. If they were cut that is.

That way diagnosing will be easier.

For what fuel sustemnto go with:
Contact Lethal customer service and talk to tech rep. Explain your situation and they’ll set you right.

P.S. - I’d do Feed/Return both -8AN
 

CCS_56_EX

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I had some problems somewhat similar to yours years past. I replaced the fuel pressure sensor, CCRM, fuel filter, plugs, maybe some more stuff. I could never get the car to start and run reliably, so I never backed it out of the garage. What was wrong with mine was that I had unplugged some of the modules in the passenger footwell to drill a hole in the firewall, and when I buttoned everything back up, I didn’t fully get one of the modules completely plugged back in. After dealing with that fiasco, I lost all desire to modify my terminator.

Hope you figure it out. Hang in there.
 

TermiCustomer

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11/25 - Disconnected BAP, relay and associated mess. Reattached power wire direct to FPDM. Started on first try. Idle is high at about 1250-1500 RPM, but steady. Idled for about 10 minutes and drove for about 10 minutes.

3.25 pulley on the way. Going to limp it to a proper tuning shop to have a return fuel system, JLT CAI, VMP slot MAF, 3.25 pulley installed, and tuned.
 

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