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Procedure for self induced ABS bleed?

Discussion in 'Wheels/Tires/Brakes' started by OX1, May 24, 2018.

  1. OX1

    OX1 Active Member Established Member

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    Sep 23, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    Still trying to get Autoingenuity to actuate my ABS. But once I figure that out.
    Do you cycle ABS while you are bleeding? Cycle ABS, then bleed, cycle ABS again, bleed again??

    It sounds like some go out on road and actuate ABS, then re-bleed when they get back home.
    Repeat as needed. I'm hoping to do this only one more time.
    Taken these wheels on and off and hooked up pressure bleeder, 5 or 6 times already.

    I'm pretty sure I did not run MC dry changing to brembos, but even my non brembo
    brakes had been kind of spongy since the day I picked it up (and yes, I've bled both bleeders on brembos, multiple times).
    Now it is even more spongy then it was stock, and I've read many think
    brembos are if anything, "touchier" than stock GT brakes, so has to be air somewhere.

    Also, if I bleed MC (hoping not to do that), does it have to come of car to get full travel?
     
  2. basspro302

    basspro302 Active Member Established Member

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    Apr 22, 2015
    Location:
    Ohio
    Well depends on the car I haven’t had to bleed the abs yet on a mustang. Some cars it calls for you to activate the abs bleed procedure in the scan tool then bleed as normal. Other cars you have to open each wheel as it cycles that wheel while the bleeder has a hose attached and submerged in brake fluid.

    When i swap calipers at work i pinch the brake line off and have never had to bleed the abs after calipers.

    You can bleed the master on the car by cracking the lines open as you have some one press on the pedal but it will make a huge mess and get on the paint. You can also do this to bleed the abs.

    Also make sure the bleeders are facing up i cant count how many times i have seen them installed upside down.
     
  3. OX1

    OX1 Active Member Established Member

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    Sep 23, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    So an update on this.

    Never did get the Autoingenuity to work correctly to bleed the ABS.
    Discussed it with the guy who writes the code (and he supposedly
    worked for Ford for 15 years prior) and the best he could do for me
    was to tell me to manually input a 2015 escape, at which point I
    could run the ABS pump, but still not control any of the valves.
    My 14 was "really" left over, and we surmise Ford switched to a 15
    CAN module on the ABS, late in the 14 Stang run.

    So I switched gears and got an Autel bi-directional scan tool for $1100.
    Unlike the Autoingenuity, it has an ABS bleed procedure (instead of just
    control of the pump and valves separately), which works fine. Ran this twice
    and re-bled, with no change. I have 30 days to return this, not sure if I will
    keep it or not. At least for that money, it will work on almost any car I or my
    extended family owns (Autoingenuity is much less money, but you have
    to buy each manufacturer seperately)

    Friend found online that when bleeding rear brakes, you should actuate
    emerg brake 5 times before bleeding.

    http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG.../IMG950189.jpg
    http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG.../IMG950190.jpg

    So I tried that, no difference.

    I also found a note in the 2011 Stang factory shop manual about MC damage
    if actuating it dry, but I'm 99% sure I never ran reservoir dry (hence I
    should not even be having this bleeding issue at all).

    So I turned my attention to the MC anyway, as it was suggested
    extended travel of MC could damage it internally (nothing about this in
    the factory shop manual bleed procedure, but who knows). I made two plugs
    to insert after removing brake lines and two fittings with lines to do a MC bleed,
    before trying the plugs. Removed master and bled on bench. Air came out on the
    first pump, about as much as would be in the empty return tubes, then no air at all.
    I don't think it had any air in it.

    Put original master back in, Bled twice and ran ABS bleed twice.
    I also found on the Autel tool a live data section and there must be a brake line
    pressure sensor somewhere, as I could read PSI and see it change as I pushed pedal.
    Car off, I can get about 900 PSI. Running, I can get upwards of 1700 PSI if I push really hard.
    Brakes do seem to work pretty good, it's just that pedal feels like it is on the floor and very spongy.
    With car off, I can get a really firm pedal after two pumps, and it does not bleed down,
    no matter how hard I push. I don't think it is a bad MC issue. I do think the master is just not
    large enough (for my preference of short/firm pedal travel).
    This is probably part of the reason ford swapped boosters to provide less boost.

    So I'm a couple grand into this Brembo swap now, and I
    really wish I had never touched the brakes. The stock brakes
    were pretty horrible, I even had it at the dealer for them
    to bleed them (as I felt even new they had too much pedal
    travel), but they told me that is the way they are and many others
    have confirmed the stock brakes are really not all that great.

    Interesting that Ford uses the same MC on all 15+ stangs (cept 6 pistons).

    https://www.tascaparts.com/oem-parts...hoCJvsQAvD_BwE

    and the stock GT 4 pistons that come on 15+, are monsters
    compared to the 14 and down brembos.

    http://luxjo.supermotors.net/MUSTANG...S/IMG_1562.JPG

    Point being, that the difference between 2 piston caliper area, (15 up V6,
    which uses 14 down GT 2 piston) and and 15 up GT 4 piston
    is an even bigger jump, yet Ford still uses same MC on all 15's but the
    6 pistons (which uses a 1-1/8 vs 1-1/16).
     
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2018
  4. basspro302

    basspro302 Active Member Established Member

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    I believe they changed the booster on the brembo cars
     
  5. OX1

    OX1 Active Member Established Member

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    Location:
    New Jersey
    Yes, supposedly 30% less boost. They also changed booster on 6 piston S550's
    (in addition to larger master). I grabbed a 16 booster/MC (man trans perf package car)
    off E-bay for $50. Not sure if that booster will fit (firewall studs and internbal booster rod
    length look pretty close) and outlets for master are on opposite side, but I'm going to find out.
     
  6. 2012 Boss 302

    2012 Boss 302 Member Established Member

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    Location:
    Sugar Land, TX
    What did you find out about the booster ????
     
  7. OX1

    OX1 Active Member Established Member

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    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2015
    Location:
    New Jersey
    If you mean PP booster on 14 down, I don't care. I like suposedly "overly" touchy brakes with
    very short pedal travel, even though most don't I guess. I'm only 153 lbs, so maybe that is one
    reason I like highly boosted brakes

    On the 15+ booster, they changed the mount pattern for the booster on 15 firewall, it's about 1/8 wider
    in both direction. So I kept 14 booster (could not see any major change in external dimensions, but who knows
    if they made internal changes to 15+ PP booster).

    I also made my own adj booster rod using stock 14 booster rod (which is not adjsutable stock, even though
    15+ PP booster rod is). I am using the 16, 1-1/8 MC, using both the thin o-ring that came on 16 MC
    and slightly larger ID "square" O-ring that came on 14 MC. Otherwsie, 15+ MC bolts right up.
    Port for rear brakes is larger on 15+ MC, so I made a completely new line from MC to ABS block for
    rear brakes. The line for rear brakes is also larger dia on 15+ than on 14, so I increased the
    tubing size and drilled out the fitting that mounts to ABS block. I tried using the smaller line from
    14 with larger fitting on 15+ master end, but it would not seal on master end leaking quite a bit.
     
  8. 2012 Boss 302

    2012 Boss 302 Member Established Member

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    Location:
    Sugar Land, TX
    Could you expand on this? How did you do it? Any pictures of the process??
     

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