My opinion is for the GT500 vs ZL1 1LE (650hp) not the C8 Corvette (495hp).
Randy Pobst Testing The Big 3 (HellCat,GT 500,1LE)
- Thread starter KILLERARMY
- Start date
My opinion is for the GT500 vs ZL1 1LE (650hp) not the C8 Corvette (495hp).
Well, I might get flamed for this, but IMHO the tires on the Camaro are better than Cup 2s. When the Goodyears are brought up to temp, they are quite something.
I've never ran Cup 2s mostly because of price and I was happy with Goodyears/Toyos, so I don't have experience to inform my above (humble) opinion.
Yep, sorry 'bout the lack of clarity. This thread is for the Pony Cars only (no Corvettes). I'm not the OP but I was gonna point out that this thread isn't the the other thread about the C8 Z51 with changed alignment at VIR. Randy handled the wheel at both comparisons.
Which I think the "cheap" Camaro beats a non-CFTP GT500 all day long (IMHO).
I'd argue that because of the Camaro, the GT500 isn't such a "just better well rounded vehicle", but I can get there because the money it takes (e.g. the CFTP) to arrive at your point.
If the market was $100K+ Mustangs, then we'd see Shelby Super Snakes or Roush Stage 10s or Petty Garage Stage 100s all over the place. But we don't. My opinion is that $100K Mustangs hurt the Mustang brand and it's loyal fans. It does this because it's not able to dominate it's market competition at it's price (and it _should_ IMHO). A Mustang has _never_ been the most expensive Pony Car in it's 55 year history, has it?
I start to look at alternatives when a/any Mustang reaches $100k because of the value proposition.
hahahaha! funny review. Randy is a little bias to Chevy. But he knows the CFTP will beat it with good meat.
Saw a few guys try the PSC2 on the ZLE and switch right back to the GY SC3R, to me that’s telling.
So I’ve been reading these threads on other forums and the tire deal is just so confusing I think it was done on purpose at this point...
-randy says tires are cooked
-ZLE is on “factory tires” buuuut...
-pic posted of silver ZLE has obvious Michelin on front (guys were claiming MP4S, but it looks like it says pilot sport cup 2 to me)
-same car’s owner reportedly said he had 21k on the rears...i can tell you that wasn’t the GY SC3R lol...very possible GY SC3 though.
So basically, we don’t know shit about anything and i might or might not have a car chub for a CFTP car anyway.
We do know plenty... we know that the old “crusty” ZL1 is HELLUVA competition for the new GT500, at the track. Much much MUCH less expensive than the GT500.
ZL1 is the best bang for the buck, by far.
ZL1 is the only car with a real man’s transmission.
ZL1 is the Pro Race Car Driver’s favorite.
That’s plenty of info.
ZL1 is the best bang for the buck, by far.
ZL1 is the only car with a real man’s transmission.
ZL1 is the Pro Race Car Driver’s favorite.
That’s plenty of info.
So yer saying you buy a car based on how much you get for the money, if it’ll put a stiff manly sticks in your hands, and whether or not another man really likes ****ing with it.
Just saying people should buy a car based on liking it. No shame in that.
Lol, just raining on your parade, honestly the zl1 is great, I just don’t like that I don’t fit comfy to drive 5th or 6th gens. Must bash accordingly.
“Bang for the buck” is part of the equation for me. I’m not made of bucks; therefore, have a limited budget.
The main factor would be getting a car without a manual. Could never take joy in a victory with an auto type trans. Might jump into an auto as I age and when I don’t further seek to enjoy winning races by the “fruits of my labor”.
The 500 is badass though, no denying that. Just feel that the ZL1 is more impressive considering the massive disadvantages.
For me it's "value". What _other_ vehicles are available for $100k to weigh against the GT500? What value can I get for $100K?
By no means am I saying the GT500 isn't bad ass (same as @ZYBORG), but I am saying it doesn't have $100K worth of value. So if (probably when) I buy one it will be because I have bought a halo Mustang very regularly since 1995 and not value. You know, a purely emotional, irrational fiscal decision. Which does sadden me to some degree...
...and I still think/worry that Gubbermint Motors "tunes" up the ZL1 1LE. It would be very easy to use a larger Eaton and get close to 760HP.... I see Z06es all day with the bigger Eaton (the Heartbeat kits for example).
By no means am I saying the GT500 isn't bad ass (same as @ZYBORG), but I am saying it doesn't have $100K worth of value. So if (probably when) I buy one it will be because I have bought a halo Mustang very regularly since 1995 and not value. You know, a purely emotional, irrational fiscal decision. Which does sadden me to some degree...
...and I still think/worry that Gubbermint Motors "tunes" up the ZL1 1LE. It would be very easy to use a larger Eaton and get close to 760HP.... I see Z06es all day with the bigger Eaton (the Heartbeat kits for example).
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...probably "bang for the buck" is the same as "value"?
My band for buck comes from knowing it laps with a gt3rs for $100,000 less, and will sell for near sticker it’s entire life. I don’t see a decent to excellent cftp dipping below $85k ever.
Compare that to an 07 gt500. Value speaks. You go buy a g63amg today for $133k msrp, it’s worth $140k at auction. Same story with a gt500cftp.
The reason gm products tank is they kill the previous year basically every year. Ford really doesn’t.
The years they did, 07-2014, those cars haven’t held value well. Sold a lot more cars and did a lot for ford, but resale is 50%. The years they used Porsche modeling of scarcity+innovation, like 93/04/14? Resale is 75-100%+.
Now ford offers the limited resale model like Porsche (gt350r, gt500cftp) and the yearly model like gm, gt500(&tp), gt350, etc.
I don’t have $100k for a gt500cftp, but I’m not going to shit on it because of that. I’m not in need of a fast budget minded pony car because I already have one with 1200whp so I’m not too impressed by a zl1 or a hellcat.
I’m not going to go on record shitting on guys who buy those or shit on those cars on a forum. I can hop in my car and beat them on the street. Why bruise ego’s and act like junior high online? Just buy or build what you like and respect it, other peoples builds, etc. I really appreciate some of the best of Japanese car culture for that. You’ll see skylines next to supras next to evos and sti’s etc all redone to the owners vision.
I like going to car meets where the vibe is like that. This forum bash is limp worsted imo.
Compare that to an 07 gt500. Value speaks. You go buy a g63amg today for $133k msrp, it’s worth $140k at auction. Same story with a gt500cftp.
The reason gm products tank is they kill the previous year basically every year. Ford really doesn’t.
The years they did, 07-2014, those cars haven’t held value well. Sold a lot more cars and did a lot for ford, but resale is 50%. The years they used Porsche modeling of scarcity+innovation, like 93/04/14? Resale is 75-100%+.
Now ford offers the limited resale model like Porsche (gt350r, gt500cftp) and the yearly model like gm, gt500(&tp), gt350, etc.
I don’t have $100k for a gt500cftp, but I’m not going to shit on it because of that. I’m not in need of a fast budget minded pony car because I already have one with 1200whp so I’m not too impressed by a zl1 or a hellcat.
I’m not going to go on record shitting on guys who buy those or shit on those cars on a forum. I can hop in my car and beat them on the street. Why bruise ego’s and act like junior high online? Just buy or build what you like and respect it, other peoples builds, etc. I really appreciate some of the best of Japanese car culture for that. You’ll see skylines next to supras next to evos and sti’s etc all redone to the owners vision.
I like going to car meets where the vibe is like that. This forum bash is limp worsted imo.
yes
You are absolutely correct. Just have two things to add:
1- I would take out the 13/14 Shelby cars out of the group (07-12) that is not doing that great holding value. Best years would be 93,03/04 and 13/14.
2- You have to remember that forums are entertainment. You can’t take the shit said here too seriously. Everyone has different tastes, everyone has an opinion. Some will get a little sensitive, some will have thicker skin, some will laugh at the shenanigans. If everyone sucked each other off, it would get very gay/boring in here. It’s a shit slinging fest and everyone is invited. Bring your gloves, mask and eye protection and get at ‘me!
This car will hold value and its pricing in the used car market if they are making them only for a year or two. I hear they are making them for 3-4 years? (not 100% sure of that so don't go off ragging on me if it isn't true)
What's the # of units for each model year? The last few of the last year of production will be the ones that will keep their used car pricing near sticker or higher. Even more so for the CFTP. The first model year or two of this car will depreciate like any other Mustang or car if they keep producing them in subsequent years after AND make improvements (better DCT, and everyone's favorite MO POWAR BABY).
The 13-14 500's will escalate in value in due time based on the fact it is the last model with the biggest cid SC engine in GT500 history, the MT, and CS himself still being around while it was in development. That time hasn't appeared yet and it could be a long time before that happens. I probably sold mine off a little too soon but I will be 6ft under way before the Trinity will sell for #'s like the classic 60's Shelbys (if they even reach that level).
While I'm still alive, I'm happy to know that I lost the Shelby and soon my C6 Z06 to get into a C7 ZR1...……………..a 1 model year car (under 3000 units, only 130 or so in Canada), last vette with a MT and FERD platform (which speaks Corvette way more than that upcoming ME Ferrari wannabe), and I'm pretty sure resale for a 19 ZR1 will stay near sticker or go higher in due time (especially 1 with a MT, only 900 or so total produced with manual trans).
BTW, there is a registry online that tracks all produced C7 ZR1 cars, it turns out I have the 5th last car produced for Canada, 3rd last with a MT, my car is 1 of 9 cars in Canada that is Arctic white, 2 of the 9 is MT and my car is the only car in Canada that is AW, M7, and ZTK.
That is pretty cool in my books.
Tony
What's the # of units for each model year? The last few of the last year of production will be the ones that will keep their used car pricing near sticker or higher. Even more so for the CFTP. The first model year or two of this car will depreciate like any other Mustang or car if they keep producing them in subsequent years after AND make improvements (better DCT, and everyone's favorite MO POWAR BABY).
The 13-14 500's will escalate in value in due time based on the fact it is the last model with the biggest cid SC engine in GT500 history, the MT, and CS himself still being around while it was in development. That time hasn't appeared yet and it could be a long time before that happens. I probably sold mine off a little too soon but I will be 6ft under way before the Trinity will sell for #'s like the classic 60's Shelbys (if they even reach that level).
While I'm still alive, I'm happy to know that I lost the Shelby and soon my C6 Z06 to get into a C7 ZR1...……………..a 1 model year car (under 3000 units, only 130 or so in Canada), last vette with a MT and FERD platform (which speaks Corvette way more than that upcoming ME Ferrari wannabe), and I'm pretty sure resale for a 19 ZR1 will stay near sticker or go higher in due time (especially 1 with a MT, only 900 or so total produced with manual trans).
BTW, there is a registry online that tracks all produced C7 ZR1 cars, it turns out I have the 5th last car produced for Canada, 3rd last with a MT, my car is 1 of 9 cars in Canada that is Arctic white, 2 of the 9 is MT and my car is the only car in Canada that is AW, M7, and ZTK.
That is pretty cool in my books.
Tony
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So yer saying yer looking to duel...
What’s the fastest stock tire zl1 and redeye runs? What’s the fastest a red eye or zl1 have gone on a comparable tire to the gt500’s mpss’s? (Not the cfpt’s mpsc2’s, just mpss’s from the track pack.)
Has a stock 1le auto or manual created 10’s yet? Has a stock or tire only red eye run 10.5/6/7?
Considering the sticker price is a whopping difference of $10k from zl1 to redeye to base or track pack gt500, there’s not a big enough gap to justify any mud slinging.
The cars are 2 months old and starting to norm out and lose adm’a except the cftp cars.
We know a zl1 on decent healthy tires can barely edge out a gt500 on worn tires at the track, but the reviewers even pointed out the tires on the gt500 were done. It went 11.4@130 in 1/4 testing which is about the worst time published so far.
When we get a straight head to head test of a zl1 vs gt500 cftp, the gap will be pretty wide imo. There’s probably 2 seconds at leguna, which is huge even considering $25k difference.
What’s the fastest stock tire zl1 and redeye runs? What’s the fastest a red eye or zl1 have gone on a comparable tire to the gt500’s mpss’s? (Not the cfpt’s mpsc2’s, just mpss’s from the track pack.)
Has a stock 1le auto or manual created 10’s yet? Has a stock or tire only red eye run 10.5/6/7?
Considering the sticker price is a whopping difference of $10k from zl1 to redeye to base or track pack gt500, there’s not a big enough gap to justify any mud slinging.
The cars are 2 months old and starting to norm out and lose adm’a except the cftp cars.
We know a zl1 on decent healthy tires can barely edge out a gt500 on worn tires at the track, but the reviewers even pointed out the tires on the gt500 were done. It went 11.4@130 in 1/4 testing which is about the worst time published so far.
When we get a straight head to head test of a zl1 vs gt500 cftp, the gap will be pretty wide imo. There’s probably 2 seconds at leguna, which is huge even considering $25k difference.
Good Stuff Tony. It's interesting to see the 13/14 Trinity's are pretty much going for the same price as the GT350s on the resale market.
I doubt that "a decent to excellent CFTP dipping below $85K ever" is realistic. That just hasn't proven out for any non-exclusive car made in the last 20 years. It's the opposite actually. Cars that increase in value or retain value is rareified air, for example the 2005/2006 Ford GT. This Mustang, like all other Mustangs will depreciate modestly to significantly depending on production numbers, IMHO. I expect Ford is going to make thousands of GT500s until 2022MY. They have made 4-5K units of SVT/Shelby every year since 1993. The CFTP GT500 is not a Ford GT. Look at all the Corvette ZR1s made over the years.
In addition, I am not acting like junior high nor am I shitting on anyone's purchase (or the folks who make them). I am just lamenting and engaging in open discussion as a fanatical Mustang fan. Nothing more, nothing less. I've kept my discourse civil and would like the same in return. Is not OK to be critical of Ford here?
A ZR1 is a special car. Right now is the time to strike... Crazy deals on them because of the C8.
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