Retrofitting '13/'14 GT500 Bilstein Damp-Tronic's to any '07-'12 GT500

[Tob]

I decided to take a closer look at the damaged strut I purchased so I delivered it to the operating table.

I decided to snip the little bit of sheathing that was still intact. The wires were 100% severed.

Looks like at most I now have a spare Bilstein strut body. The harness is severed at a critical juncture and can't be repaired.

Looks like I'll be ordering a new right side strut.

I've studied other Bilstein electronic struts and noticed that in other applications that Bilstein better protected the pigtail than how Ford asked them to do in this application. Note the harness exiting the bottom of the silver strut via a slot in the following picture...

The above hardware was going in this car by the way...

I've noticed that the Damp-Tronics are being used on some serious machinery. The pricing for full kits is out there. Bilstein does sell a wiring kit (I haven't seen one for GT500's though) along with a control unit and switch...

I'm starting to think that Ford engineers were using portions of readily available parts from Bilstein on their development vehicles (photos are from the Nurburgring cars). The illuminated button comes from Bilstein kits for other cars...

Then look at the connectors at the zip tie in the following photo. They mirror what Bilstein uses in their other kits and are not what Ford uses on production '13/'14 GT500 vehicles...

That's all I have for now. This one may take a bit, which is fine by me. But I'll keep digging for a workable solution for retrofit.

 

[89Saleen215]

Tob - would you happen to know what the spring rates are?

 

[Tob]

I don't. I'm sure you're aware that Ford doesn't publish them either. Maybe Terry at Vorshlag has. I know he had put together a list of spring rates as he has spring tester at his business...

 

[GOTSVT?]

Well done, looking forward to end result.

 

[Bonefish]

Awesome TOB! I wish I was as smart as you!

Watching with fascination!

 

[PRP]

I don't. I'm sure you're aware that Ford doesn't publish them either. Maybe Terry at Vorshlag has. I know he had put together a list of spring rates as he has spring tester at his business...

It's easy to make your own spring tester. I made one when my grandson was racing Quarter Midgets.

I used one of my scale platforms on my hydraulic press. Put the spring on the scale, slightly pre-load it and zero the scale. Compress the spring exactly one inch (I had a dial indicator set up to measure distance) and note the weight on the scale. If you compress exactly one more inch, your spring pressure should double.

I made a set of perches to set the spring on and to press the top with so the spring didn't take a leap and kill someone. I'd highly recommend using a OEM top spring perch and fab some kind of keeper for the bottom of the spring to keep it from popping out under compression.

BTW, you only need to compress a spring ONE INCH but if you're testing a 900lb spring, that means that one inch is going to put 900 pounds of pressure on the spring so it's LOADED...Loaded enough to do some damage if it pops out.

Even with our Quarter Midget springs, we were typically compressing them somewhere between 75 and 95 pounds per inch (one inch = 75 lbs, two inches = 150 lbs, etc.) and I wouldn't have wanted one of the to take my teeth out.

But I rarely took them to 2 inches because it's really not needed, except to confirm the rate at 1 inch.


Phill

 

[PRP]

I don't think this one's gonna work. I'm betting you're gonna need a new computer or Body Control Module along with some way to interface with the dampeners.

I totally disagree.

Unless there is a on/off duty cycle (dwell) you can do everything a computer does. A computer just does it with resistors, transistors and diodes.

All the PCM is doing on OEM cars is intergrating the dual mode shocks with the electric steering and ABS.

If all Tob is looking for is a dual mode shock valving system, he can do it with a simple toggle switch and a resistor, if they require less than full charging voltage.


Phill

 

[modernbeat]

...BTW, you only need to compress a spring ONE INCH but if you're testing a 900lb spring, that means that one inch is going to put 900 pounds of pressure on the spring so it's LOADED...Loaded enough to do some damage if it pops out...

I disagree.

If you are only testing linear springs, then yes, you should take a reading between 2 and 3 inches to get an accurate reading as the tapered ends or part of the coil against the perch will skew the reading at the first inch and depending on the strength of the spring, even the second inch.

If you are rating progressive springs or dual rate springs like most OEM springs then you really have to rate them throughout their full range. You will also want to measure their loaded height on the car so you know what the actual spring rate AT RIDE HEIGHT is. Many progressive springs are advertized at their stiffest rate which is often well beyond any rate they will deliver in real world conditions.

 

[ponyboyisaac]

Subin...curious to see how this turns out.

You are a true pioneer with this project tob, ford racing take note if you are watching!

 

[Tob]

Awesome TOB! I wish I was as smart as you!
Watching with fascination!

I'm just a grunt, Mike. There are some truly amazing people out there that are acutely inspirational. I'm fascinated by the system as well.

It's easy to make your own spring tester.
Phill

I've seen guys make them work. If I had more time and interest I'd definitely follow suit. It would be kind of neat to see a thorough chart on rates for the past few years.

If all Tob is looking for is a dual mode shock valving system, he can do it with a simple toggle switch and a resistor, if they require less than full charging voltage.

Phill

That's all I'm looking for. I had this very conversation with a good friend that is an engineer with Dresser-Rand and made an identical suggestion.

Subin...curious to see how this turns out.

You are a true pioneer with this project tob, ford racing take note if you are watching!

If I was working for FRPP and was handed this project I'd be frothing. Not at the nature of it but rather to see how quickly I could get it done. The pieces of the puzzle would be easy to put together had I factory resources. My guess would be that someone within FRPP had the itch to bring this one to the market but for whatever reason it got shot down (cost?). Think we can get them to reconsider?

 

[89Saleen215]

I don't. I'm sure you're aware that Ford doesn't publish them either. Maybe Terry at Vorshlag has. I know he had put together a list of spring rates as he has spring tester at his business...

No, actually I didn't realize that as I have the OEM and FRPP spring rates for the '07-'09's. I guess that's why I haven't seen them anywhere.

Which brings up the next issue that was mentioned...what kind/type of spring's are they? Progressive, etc...

I'm currently running the FRPP setup on full soft and I'm not impressed, but I think that's because of the spring rates. When I tracked at Spring Mountain they were dialed down to 1 turn before full stiff and they worked well. I'd just like to be able to compare the two setups before making the jump so I know what to expect.

 

[BMARZ]

I'm keeping a close eye on what you come up with, Tob. I was going to procure a "damper module," but after speaking with SVT suspension guru Becky at Mustang Alley last year, it didn't sound like it was going to be easy retrofitting that system into a Mustang not originally equipped with Bilstein's Damptronic system (read: any Mustang other than a PP-equipped 2013-14 GT500). As it stands, my dampers are perpetually stuck in "sport," and the resulting ride is way, way stiffer than the ride the Koni STR.T's provided (obviously). Handling is MUCH improved, though, with absolutely zero body roll in corners.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...bilsteins-brembos-installed-my-2011-5-0l.html

 

[1320 Junkie]

I remember asking my buddy if his car had the sport button like the nurburgring cars and he said no its selected on the dash in the track apps menu. Theres gotta be a way to get this done....if not Koni yellows are probably our best bet. I applaud you for your dedication to projects like this. My brother is a engineer so I will pick his brain for a solution to this also....I may even make a call to Jim Larocca who deals with ford computer engineers extensively.

 

[Carl]

Who sells the wiring kit?

 

[Tob]

Who sells the wiring kit?

Carl, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no GT500 dedicated stand alone harness available at present. The factory connectors look to be integrated into a main chassis harness which leads to a factory Ford module that controls more than just the struts/shocks.

I'm keeping a close eye on what you come up with, Tob. I was going to procure a "damper module," but after speaking with SVT suspension guru Becky at Mustang Alley last year, it didn't sound like it was going to be easy retrofitting that system into a Mustang not originally equipped with Bilstein's Damptronic system (read: any Mustang other than a PP-equipped 2013-14 GT500). As it stands, my dampers are perpetually stuck in "sport," and the resulting ride is way, way stiffer than the ride the Koni STR.T's provided (obviously). Handling is MUCH improved, though, with absolutely zero body roll in corners.

First, I'm thankful I'm not alone in this effort. You've got a great start and the information you uncovered definitely helps. I'm curious, is this the person you spoke with, Rebecca Nalevanko? It'd be nice to be able to discuss how SVT engineers rigged their development vehicle as I had discussed earlier, it appears as though they were using a Bilstein control module and universal/custom harness. You didn't happen to get her business card did you?

 

[Carl]

Yeah I know there's no GT500 harness. What I'm interested in is the wiring kit pictured in your post. I would think splicing in the correct connectors might be what I would do. It looks like there is a small control module in that picture.

 

[Tob]

Yeah I know there's no GT500 harness. What I'm interested in is the wiring kit pictured in your post. I would think splicing in the correct connectors might be what I would do. It looks like there is a small control module in that picture.

Bilstein may have a universal kit and module but I have yet to inquire. The GT500 development vehicles used some of the Bilstein pieces (harness, actuator/button, etc). I just don't know if they were also using the control module from Bilstein as well...

 

[Carl]

I have a call into a product manager at Bilstein. Hopefully he will provide some info. If not I'll go do some checks on a PP car and research the wiring diagrams.

 

[Tob]

Ever since I lost my shareware version of the DOJ's CARNIVORE software I've had to work much harder to uncover heretofore overlooked information. And since the NSA's metadata proves to be a rather boring and overly technical read, I've given in to human intelligence. There are some good people as interested as I in seeing this project reach fruition. Evil 'doers', step aside.:burn:

A select fortune cookie has unearthed (for me anyway) the origins of the system that is the topic of this thread. Upon information and belief, it looks as though the man behind the mask is non other than Klaus Schmidt. Among others, it would appear as though Klaus' rather creative patent for Thyssenkrupp/Bilstein is the reason why these unique Bilsteins are so good. The science...

Patent US8322369 - Damping valve for a hydraulic shock absorber - Google Patents

Klaus, in his capacity as the head of development 'Aktive Systems' did a presentation at the 2012 Vehicle Dynamics Expo in Stuttgart Germany.

Vehicle Dynamics EXPO 2012

His is second up from the bottom, on a page ripe with tech. http://www.ukintpress-conferences.com/uploads/SPVDX12/Day2_11_Klaus_Schmidt.pdf

I'm loving his simplistic goals with the DampTronics...

- Perceptible customer value by manual switching
between two damper settings

Whereby...

- Sports suspension activates at the push of a button
- Comfort suspension activates at the push of a button

Development targets were low cost, compact design, low energy consumption, and independently tunable settings. Indubitably, these Deutschlanders would fit right into our little world of hot rodding. Hey Klaus, we want to be able to push that button too!

The pdf certainly helps to visualize the technical speak from the patent application. Remember the wires that were severed at the bottom of my RH strut? Where did they go and what were they actuating?

A solenoid, that when energized, chooses Comfort Mode.

Of interest is the smoothed chart that shows each mode and how they react to damper force as velocity changes.

As well as how hydraulic flow is directed depending on the mode the actuator has chosen (which in reality is the end user simply pushing a button).

What I'd like to find more information on or a better explanation of is that of the variance between the two settings. The following diagram begs for a simple narrative (and so do I!).

With respect to my questions about connector availability (especially at the rear shock) the pdf makes the following declaration...

Hopefully, that 'solution' can be passed onto potential customers via a method other than buying the whole 70K enchilada. And if Bilstein is to remain true to their word...

...then this design should be able to be adapted to meet our demands. Sadly, the last time I was in Germany the 'Wall' was still up, so the opportunity to discuss my intent with Klaus over some bratwurst mit ein beer probably won't be happening. The digging ensues...

 

[Carl]

Well hopefully I will have the voltage and current requirements in a few days and I can start working on a controller. Not too worried about the front connector but the rears might be a challenge.