SCCA Track Night in America. Advice and recommendations please

[Epic510]

First let me give some background of my (lack of) on track experience. This will be my 2nd TN event. I've also completed a one day Bertil Roos school driving a Formula 2000? And that's it! Lol. I do of course consider myself to be a legend of the highway off ramp. In all seriousness though, I do consider myself a good driver and think I have a good grasp on the very basics.

At my first TNIA event I entered in the novice group. I spent a lot of my track time waiting patiently for the point by from everything from Fiat 500's and Chevy Sonics to Wrx's and even a Cayman. That being said I have no illusions about my ability or experience. It just felt like many had never driven over 80 mph before. There were a few people who I felt were down right dangerous out there! This time I opted for the intermediate group. I'm thinking worst case I have the least experience and let everybody pass and I can at least run to where it's still exciting but comfortable. Am I in over my head?

Concern #2 is tire choice. I currently have 20' Nitto 555r 305/35's in rear and 275/35 555g2's in front. Last time I ran with the stock 19's on nearly new Goodyear Pilot Sport A/S. Those were 255-40's all around. Should I keep the bigger, stickier rubber on or should I go back to OE setup? Car felt good last time, I'm worried about the drag radials in the rear and also of having far more grip than ability.

Lemme know what you think

thanks!

 

[99COBRA2881]

Have you read the sticky at the top of this forum?

I'd run the stock 19" tires. Drag radials have softer sidewalls not something that's beneficial on a road course.

As for the intermediate group go out last if you are that worried but depending on the track you better watch your mirrors closer after 4-5 laps.

 

[MFE]

How much time did they spend telling the drivers about flags, car control, looking ahead, point-bys, track etiquette? How did they evaluate who should be in what run group?

 

[apex32]

Those events are a mess. I would spend your seat time more wisely and learn from seasoned drivers, and certified instructors. Like NASA, BMWCCA, PCA, etc.

With that said, as mentioned above you have a very poor tire choice for road course driving. I would keep them for the street (if you like) and pick up a set of 18" wheels in a square setup. Then run something like the RS3 V2 or similar.

What brake pads, and brake fluid are you running?

 

[Epic510]

Have you read the sticky at the top of this forum?

I have.

I'd run the stock 19" tires. Drag radials have softer sidewalls not something that's beneficial on a road course.

As for the intermediate group go out last if you are that worried but depending on the track you better watch your mirrors closer after 4-5 laps.

Ive seen on other forums where people have used the 555r's for track day events and said they were decent for beginners. That being said think I will go with stock 19's. That's what I used last time and had a great time. I've only put about 50 miles on my new set up and am not nearly as comfortable driving fast with it.

How much time did they spend telling the drivers about flags, car control, looking ahead, point-bys, track etiquette? How did they evaluate who should be in what run group?

Oh they spent at least a good 15 minutes talking about those things! Plenty of time right??? Lol. They do emphasize the rules and etiquette and do a pretty good job conveying a zero tolerance policy for breaking them. At the last event I had zero issues. Everyone was giving plenty of space and only passing one car after a deliberate point by. As far as Evans. They don't evaluate anyone. You pretty much fill out an online form with a line for your "track experience", pay your $150 and your off! Three 20 minute track sessions.

Those events are a mess. I would spend your seat time more wisely and learn from seasoned drivers, and certified instructors. Like NASA, BMWCCA, PCA, etc.

With that said, as mentioned above you have a very poor tire choice for road course driving. I would keep them for the street (if you like) and pick up a set of 18" wheels in a square setup. Then run something like the RS3 V2 or similar.

What brake pads, and brake fluid are you running?

I agree I'd learn a lot more at a different event but I think this is a great way to get people on the track for the first few times. This is a very beginner friendly event with few big egos. I'm still kind of intimidated to play with the big boys.

Pads are stock and new with about 4K on pads and OEM rotors. Car has Brembo package. Brake fluid is whatever Ford put in there 4K ago when I bought it as a CPO.

 

[apex32]

Ive seen on other forums where people have used the 555r's for track day events and said they were decent for beginners. That being said think I will go with stock 19's. That's what I used last time and had a great time. I've only put about 50 miles on my new set up and am not nearly as comfortable driving fast with it.



Oh they spent at least a good 15 minutes talking about those things! Plenty of time right??? Lol. They do emphasize the rules and etiquette and do a pretty good job conveying a zero tolerance policy for breaking them. At the last event I had zero issues. Everyone was giving plenty of space and only passing one car after a deliberate point by. As far as Evans. They don't evaluate anyone. You pretty much fill out an online form with a line for your "track experience", pay your $150 and your off! Three 20 minute track sessions.



I agree I'd learn a lot more at a different event but I think this is a great way to get people on the track for the first few times. This is a very beginner friendly event with few big egos. I'm still kind of intimidated to play with the big boys.

Pads are stock and new with about 4K on pads and OEM rotors. Car has Brembo package. Brake fluid is whatever Ford put in there 4K ago when I bought it as a CPO.

I know you are new, but I highly suggest putting some better pads on the car, and also fresh fluid like ATE 200, Motul, Castrol etc. You will speed up quick, and the last thing you want is braking issues. I would also look into brake ducts. It may seem excessive now, but you're going to have issues pretty quick with braking if you start to speed up otherwise. These cars have a good amount of power and are damn heavy.

Also don't be intimidated by the larger groups. If anything they are more structured, and you will be in a specific run group of novices just like you are in these events. Except you will get much better coaching, and learn lines and strategy better and quicker. Just a thought, at the end of the day just have fun and be safe, though.

Edit: What track are you running at?

 

[Epic510]

What track are you running at?

Pocono Raceway. Last time we ran Thunderbolt at NJMP. Pocono appears to me to be a lot faster track. We come out of infield before turn 2 then go all the way down and drop back to the infield right before turn 1. It's a looong straight.

https://www.google.com/imgres?imgur...d=0ahUKEwiMw_yM7OnLAhUGbRQKHT6oAWsQMwgyKBMwEw

 

[Epic510]

http://youtu.be/Ue1BdE78XNQ

vid of the course

 

[SeikenFreak]

Interesting. I actually just registered to one of these Track Nights. NJMP April 27th. I seem to be in a very similar situation as you.

I did an HPDE with TrackDaze on NJMP's Thunderbolt a few years ago in my built STI and did fine . The instructor suggested I might move up to the next group toward the end of the day. I then did a NASA HPDE with the Mustang except it ended up being cold, raining, and on the Lightning course. I left after 2 sessions because it was so miserable and my friends were "spectating" in the parking lot.

So I registered for the Intermediate group because it sounds like these events are super entry level. Not sure if that's okay? And this would be my first legit dry weather run in the Mustang (assuming it doesn't rain again) and RWD is a whole other beast compared to AWD.

I just want to go and see how the car is. Has staggered setup on it now.. the Sumitomo HTR Zs. Rotors, Hawk HP+ pads, SS lines, Motul fluid, brake ducts should be okay for my beginner level.

 

[99COBRA2881]

You would've learned more car control in the wet as you would in three days in the dry.

 

[SeikenFreak]

Yea haha I knew that was going to be the response to that. That's what the instructor and people on here said. I understand, but it was just no fun.

I don't think I like the Lightning course, I was freezing and wet, friends standing around in paddock for hours, felt like driving on ice.. didn't want to crash the car. I had over-RainX'd the windshield or something so the wipers were skipping across the windshield so those were useless.. It was like driving around at 5 MPH.

Id at least like to drive a dry course once in a car before I try and tackle it in the rain.

 

[99COBRA2881]

My SCCA race school was on a track I'd never driven on, in a 380 rwhp race car I had just finished and had driven it onto the trailer to go to the school, it was 38°, the wind was blowing and it was raining. I had no rain tires so I swapped my old kumho mxs off my 99 cobra onto the car.

Now that sucked. I got passed by every car in the race group in the wet. On Sunday the track was dry and the V710s went on. No one passed me that day but I had the confidence to push the car already because I kept it under me in the wet the day before on shit tires.

 

[598]

Best racing I've ever done was at a lemons event with a 91 escort GT in the pouring rain. Don't think I got passed more than a few times in 2 hours, and god is it fun when the car is never fully under your control but never out of control. You just have to do it to understand.

 

[SeikenFreak]

So, anyone here do NJMP Thunderbolt with a Cobra T56 and 4.10s?

I just put one in my Mach and it does not like to go from 3rd to 2nd (goes from 1st to 2nd perfectly.) Completely locks me out unless I do some fiddling around with it.

Kinda worried there will be some 2nd gear stuff that Ill have to just eat in 3rd.

 

[DocB]

With your gearing ratio, you'll be just fine not going down to second on Thunderbolt.
There is no place on that track that you can't run it in third, even the Devil (you'll know it after you've taken that turn).

P.S. Drag radials don't belong on a road course. Think safety. For you and the other drivers.

 

[SeikenFreak]

Trying to find a little basic information. The sticky post "Primer" pdf link seems to be dead. Also the search is unusable on this site.. Everything I put in is "Too short or too common." Extremely frustrating. Also did some Googling but would like to get more up-to-date info (not from mid-2000s) and some people here seem to know their stuff.

I am overly cautious about this stuff now because of losing a motor due to temperature/oil issues (in my Subaru) at my first event.

1. What oil temp should I be capping myself at? Ive got Stack temp and pressure gauges. I've been running full syn 5w20 for the street (motor only has 5-10k on it) and seeing oil temps hover around 180 (thermostat temp) to 200 when reving it out more. Pressures are 100+ psi (caps gauge) cold and around 20-25 warm idle. Just did oil change with Amsoil's Dominator 10w30 (sounds like thermal breakdown is around 300F) and base oil K&N filter (Part# PS-2010, research years ago lead me to this filter being good for track use for a reason, can't remember why.) Test drive was showing me 180-210 temps.. 210 was hanging at high RPMs for a bit. 60F ambient. Around 80-90 PSI at 3k+ RPMs. My oil temp gauge tops out at 280F. No external oil cooler on the car. Canton Road Race pan.

2. What water temps should I should I look for? Running about 180-200F on street, even with hard driving. I believe it has Water Wetter in it. Probably a 60/40 water/coolant mix. Custom made Home Depot Special air dam. LDC head cooling mod.

That is all I can think of at the moment. Doing this event is mostly a shakedown to see how it does in these areas. Getting as prepped as I can.. Flushed the brakes today with fresh Motul 600, generally checked over the brakes, changed out the diff fluid and hopefully fixed the leaky cover, found this dumb rattling sound, and the oil change. Replaced the passenger inner/outer tie rod and got the alignment checked the other day. Checked and fixed my brake ducting.

On another note, I remembered another big reason for leaving that rainy track event: I decided to take a gamble and take Dramamine that morning. At my first event, I got nauseous after only a couple laps with my instructor driving his Evo on slicks. It was incredibly fun and intense so it sucked to ask him to pull in to drop me off. Thus the decision to try Dramamine, knowing it might make me feel like shit. Turns out it did. I felt super like.. floaty and out of it. Not all present. This also didn't allow me to enjoy myself. I remember feeling extremely sleepy on the 2 hour drive home which was very bad.

So I'm still trying to think of ways to counter-act the passenger motion sickness. At a later date, someone I knew offered to take me around Pocono in his 360 Challenge race car. Found myself again getting a little sick after a few laps but this time I felt like maybe I was able to narrow one of the issues down to neck strain. Being a passenger in a car that's going through traffic, where the driver is constantly on/off the throttle, was whipping my head around and trying to keep my head up was rough. It was easier when the driver could run at a proper pace, with a proper line, acceleration, and braking points and I could sort of drive the car with them and lean my head appropriately etc.

I ordered a helmet support neck thing which arrived today but it's a bit more uncomfortable than I expected. Perhaps I'll just try it as a passenger or something.

 

[MFE]

I fixed the primer link.

I run fairly heavy oil for the track (15w-50) because I routinely see oil temps of 270 degrees, and if you look up the Product Data Sheet for any oil you care to consider, and look at things like the HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) Viscosity, your eyes will bug out at how thin the -20 and -30 oils get at high temp. I would no way in hell run a 5w-20 or even -30 on a track day. That said, I wouldn't get truly concerned about oil temps unless you're pegging your 280-degree gauge. 300+ is a definite concern.

Water temp doesn't bother me til it gets over 230.

Motion sickness is heavily counteracted by looking as far ahead of the car as you're supposed to when you're driving Seriously, look way through the corners, and let the car catch up to your line of sight. Look through the side windows on entry if you need to. And if your driver is jerky and ham-fisted, ask him to smooth out and go easy.

 

[Epic510]

I fixed the primer link.

I run fairly heavy oil for the track (15w-50) because I routinely see oil temps of 270 degrees, and if you look up the Product Data Sheet for any oil you care to consider, and look at things like the HTHS (High Temperature High Shear) Viscosity, your eyes will bug out at how thin the -20 and -30 oils get at high temp. I would no way in hell run a 5w-20 or even -30 on a track day. That said, I wouldn't get truly concerned about oil temps unless you're pegging your 280-degree gauge. 300+ is a definite concern.

Water temp doesn't bother me til it gets over 230.

Motion sickness is heavily counteracted by looking as far ahead of the car as you're supposed to when you're driving Seriously, look way through the corners, and let the car catch up to your line of sight. Look through the side windows on entry if you need to. And if your driver is jerky and ham-fisted, ask him to smooth out and go easy.

So should i run 5/50 for track day?

 

[MFE]

I prefer my multi-viscosities to have closer numbers; the closer they are, the less they rely on viscosity enhancers to close the gap. Car companies like low w's for fleet fuel economy, not track use. I'd run at least 10/40 or 15/50 for track days. People look at those numbers and freak out like they're sludge, the fact is at mild temps, they're not that different, but at track temps? Big difference.

 

[SeikenFreak]

Motion sickness is heavily counteracted by looking as far ahead of the car as you're supposed to when you're driving Seriously, look way through the corners, and let the car catch up to your line of sight. Look through the side windows on entry if you need to. And if your driver is jerky and ham-fisted, ask him to smooth out and go easy.

Thanks for the response.

Well I've never had a problem getting sick while driving myself. What you described is kind of what I meant by the driver being able to drive at speed vs on/off throttle or weird unexpected behavior. And I don't really want to blame the drivers because it's their track time, in the ferrari's case it was a race car so the throttle seemed like it was an on/off switch + sequential gearbox hammering into gears, and both cars had slicks so the braking and turn-ins were sudden and hard. Seemed like proper driving to me haha Just a lot of G's on my dainty neck. Kind of like when I slave away under my car holding my head up and after awhile my neck is killing me and I feel like I don't want to eat or whatever. Now add the weight of a helmet. That's what its like.

The moments when they were able to drive at speed, and I was looking through corners as you described, is when it wasn't as bad.

So awesome though.

I prefer my multi-viscosities to have closer numbers; the closer they are, the less they rely on viscosity enhancers to close the gap. Car companies like low w's for fleet fuel economy, not track use. I'd run at least 10/40 or 15/50 for track days. People look at those numbers and freak out like they're sludge, the fact is at mild temps, they're not that different, but at track temps? Big difference.

So my concern with higher weights is pressure at this point. It seems like running something as thick as 15 on a cold start up street engine (no time spent warming up) would do something bad somewhere in the engine.. If I was at 100+ PSI on 5w, I can't imagine what I'm at now with 10w. Obviously once it's warmed up to track temps or even normal operating, it seems a bit more reasonable.

Is it going to bust seals/o-rings or screw with lifters etc?

Are you running a 4.6 or a 5.0 btw?