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Should I buy boss 302 manifold??

Discussion in 'Engine/Tuning' started by Steiblerm, Jan 7, 2017.

  1. KushBandit

    KushBandit Member Established Member

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    I hope I don't come off like a "know-it-all" lol, however I know the stock intake won't support that, it's why most people switch to the boss intake when they're NA. Porting the stock manifold doesn't gain anything either. I've seen "dyno racers" switch to the Boss intake just to hit the 420rwhp mark.

    If your car dyno'd 391rwhp stock, that means you have roughly a 7% drivetrain loss, which just isn't happening with a stock driveline.

    For reference, my coyote made 456rwhp/400rwtq (Dynojet/SAE corrected) with a ported Cobra Jet manifold, 147mm Monoblade throttle body, FRPP CAI, long tube headers, and O/R H-pipe. I'm running E85 as well. Max effort NA coyote builds barely make more than 425rwtq, certainly a simple bolt-on coyote won't see that torque on a calibrated dyno.

    Dyno numbers are for the birds anyway, ETs and trap speeds tell the real story. Dynos are just tuning tools, too many discrepancies between them to rely on HP numbers, IMO.

    With that said, I'd stick with the stock intake if the engine won't be spun passed 7000+rpm.

    Sorry for writing a novel right here lol
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  2. MarcSpaz

    MarcSpaz Resident Trouble Maker Premium Member Established Member

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    No worries bro. I'm used to people telling me I don't know what I'm talking about.
     
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  3. gt5.0coyote

    gt5.0coyote Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I agree with you bro. Every car is different. Just like our tuner at Lund estimated our car to have 460-465rwhp with our current mods. If I were to post that on here I would get roasted lol. We just keep it to myself. We know what the car is doing and that's all that matters honestly.
     
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  4. MarcSpaz

    MarcSpaz Resident Trouble Maker Premium Member Established Member

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    Exactly.
     
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  5. KushBandit

    KushBandit Member Established Member

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    Well, do you know what you're talking about? Apparently not if you think 440rwhp is coming out of the stock manifold, cai, and header car. Maybe, and that's a big maybe, if you through in some Q16 or FTW and all the timing you could throw at it, but that's not practical.

    Lol @ a boss manifold and header car making 465rwhp. While I agree that all cars are different, Factory Freaks don't exist today like they did in the '60s. What's your car run at the 1/4?
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  6. gt5.0coyote

    gt5.0coyote Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Its never been. Its only a street car. Never been on a dyno or the track
     
  7. KushBandit

    KushBandit Member Established Member

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    Then how do you know "what the car is doing"? I may be reading that wrong, but how do you know what it's doing if you don't have any ETs or Trap speeds? Again, I hope I don't come off as an argumentative prick lol.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
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  8. MarcSpaz

    MarcSpaz Resident Trouble Maker Premium Member Established Member

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    I'd like to think so. I've built many a race car and off-roaders in my lifetime. In 2009 I was one of only 7 people in the country that built a 400rwhp NA 4.6L with a stock short block. I was the only guy out of that 7 who built his own motor that was not a shop owner, just a racer who turned his own wrench.

    The car was a full dress 2007 Mustang GT Premium with zero weight savings. With me in the car, it weighed 3980 lbs on the scale at MIR. Car consistently ran 12.1x with a best pass with a buddy of mine driving of 11.98 (he's 200 lbs lighter than me).

    It maybe massive egotistical of me, but seeing how I know enough about tuning and building engines that I accomplished something that only 6 other professionals in the country could accomplish and have it run 11's, I have a pretty good feeling I know what I'm doing.

    People on this forum that can confirm what I am saying is true... STKJock and Thump_rrr. Don't know who all else is here from the original S197 community.
     
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  9. KushBandit

    KushBandit Member Established Member

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    I think you're taking this a little too personal. I was asking if you know what you're talking about in regards to the coyote engine. I'm not questioning your ability or knowledge of engines. I build Modular and LS engines for a living, so I understand where you're coming from.

    Here's a video from Lund, while it is a S550 with a Gen.2 coyote(better heads/cams), it still makes my point about the Gen.1 coyote

     
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  10. MarcSpaz

    MarcSpaz Resident Trouble Maker Premium Member Established Member

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    I've only modded the one 2013 GT I mentioned earlier. Had it less than a year. That is the only Coyote engine I've worked on... and sadly, it was very, very little work. It's the only experience to draw from.
     
  11. Grabber

    Grabber Yep... Established Member

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    Cliffs? Tuner estimates stock manifold car to be 465 RWHP and owner believes it and uses it as an arguing point.

    Then, experience on a previous model year mustang which has a very different motor somehow grants knowledge and experience in a different platform?

    Ive been on S197Forum for about 9 or more years. I knew Dave before he very active S197Forum through MF FWIW.

    OP - you cannot go wrong with either the CJ or Boss manifold. Supporting mods, fuel and tubing will determine how well it runs. If you can get one at a good price, do it. Do your research and figure out your goals short and long term. Then make a decision. Good luck.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. MarcSpaz

    MarcSpaz Resident Trouble Maker Premium Member Established Member

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    Not exactly. First, engine design and how air flows through the engine hasn't changed much over the years. It's not like everything someone ever learned is worthless when a new model comes out.

    Also, I stated my actual results after performing work on a 13 Coyote. It's not like I pulled magic info out of my ass.

    I am one of the original S197Forum members. I was friends with Kim from the beginning. Left when Shaggy took over.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2017
  13. gt5.0coyote

    gt5.0coyote Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I understand what you mean. Street runs on back roads tell us what we like and think. In Mexico we had a little roll with a zl1. We got him multiple times. He didn't need a driver mod either. Also when we watch youtube vids of full bolt on coyotes. We have yet to find one that pulls like ours. Not bragging either, just saying.
     
  14. gt5.0coyote

    gt5.0coyote Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Car isn't a stock mani car. It has the boss IM btw.
     
  15. Grabber

    Grabber Yep... Established Member

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    Understand applying general knowledge, which is great BTW, works to the new car. But, if you've never ripped the motor open, heavily modified it and raced it at the track, the experience part with this car is null and void.

    Before I modded my car, I spent days and days, if not weeks talking to tuners and drag racers about specific setups. Finally, after working with a local guy that was running near 10's on a CJ setup in a 3,550LB race weight car with stock headers, I decided on what I wanted.

    Granted, you're an exception in the modding world and racing, but, I think it's fair to say you need to perform more trial and error with the 5.0 platform before you can apply previous experience from a car that responds differently to different mods.

    I hardly go on S197 because of the mentality and attitude from the members there. Just about everyone that goes there regularly is part of a large bandwagon and if your opinion differs in the slightest, it's you against a forum. Not fond of the new owners as well.

    It's one thing to gauge how fast a car feels racing on the street and another at a track. I did that too when I was young and foolish over 10 years ago. It's not the same thing.

    Great example of this is my previous tuner that worked on my 07 GT with a Vortech through an auto said my car should make 430-450 RWHP. It made 407 RWHP. He then said it would run high 12's on a street tire, low 12's/high 11's on a drag radial. I took it to the track in 100 degree weather, had goodyear eagle street tires on it, weighed around 3850 with me in it and it cracked consistent 12.2 @ 113. Car "felt" faster, but, the reality was it ran faster than it should have and didn't make good power.

    Never got around to getting my coyote to the track after modding it and selling it almost immediately after I finished. I ran cars that were faster on paper and hung with them. The reality of this is, do some research on the 5.0. There has been so much controversy about gains, and to claim that a BM car with bolt-ons, not sure if you have headers and are running E85, will not make 465+ RWHP unless the dyno hasn't been calibrated or you have cams like Oldbones here does.

    Bolt-on numbers for the BM/CJ setups are almost ALWAYS in the 440-450 range depending on how happy a dyno is.

    Either way, once you get some actual numbers and track times, the car is only as fast as you say it is on the internet and the clout behind your point and argument is extremely moot at best. It would be the same as the 03/04 crowd claiming pulley only cars are making 500+ RWHP without a ported blower. Not happening, to be honest.
     
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  16. MarcSpaz

    MarcSpaz Resident Trouble Maker Premium Member Established Member

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    Thank you for the kind words. I agree with the level of detailed understanding for a specific platform, certainly.

    Also agree about the other forum. Those guys get a little rabid some times. LOL
     
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  17. gt5.0coyote

    gt5.0coyote Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I understand what you are saying Grabber. Ive done plenty of research on the coyote and know the engine platform. I also trust our tuner though. Hell 450rwhp isn't far off at all from the 460. Id be happy lol. Also not trying to start an argument either, but here is what I mean when I say every car is different. I read an article that stated that the 2011 and early 12's has more than 412hp. It was like 440 I believe. Here is a video. I know most will probably say the dyno is off, but ill have to find the article. It was pretty interesting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2017
  18. StalkerStang

    StalkerStang Active Member Established Member

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    I could be wrong but I think that is when they were still running them in 4th gear on the dyno instead of 5th.....
     
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  19. Grabber

    Grabber Yep... Established Member

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    ^exactly. Another guy here has a recent thread where his 5.0 with CJ cams, CJ and no tune car made 443 RWHP and 506 RWTQ. His car was dynod in 4th gear......




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2017
  20. Evojayfi21

    Evojayfi21 Member Established Member

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    With 373's you wont feel any loss down low but you will feel the power up top...
     

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