Okay for the AFCO fans you will want to leave now because the truth will be revealed. Fellow Shelby/C&R H/E owners you will be relieved and sleep well with reassurance.
There have been 1/2% percent failure rate with AFCO fan set up. (not the H/E just the fans that they use) Now I know the naysayers will come out here with their opinions (like Joe Friday I will just post the facts) Well after reading many of the posts of people melting fuses, burning up wires, and even burning up relays I figured there had to be some sort of a problem.
Is it AFCO's fault or just a bad joint here and there. Well I will keep this all factual and not say things like Meltco, On a quiet night you can hear an AFCO melt, for all the AFCO owners " Got Fans". That would be very childish and juvenile because it is bad enough we neglected posts by other H/E vendors about the products.
Heck if said vendor sells a product for say 50 bucks more with free shipping is it worth it. After you save the money with a cheaper product. Take the car apart to install and put it back together just to burn up. Take the car back apart to remove the burnt up harness and then purchase another harness from another vendor, tear the car back down, replace everything and put the car back together. Did you really save anything but thats not the point of this.
Here we go. There have been 8 different members that I can count and link to this thread that have problems with the SPAL fans. Now I have joked around and I still will because wiring is what I do. Now I can not understand for the life of me how a company can take anothers company patent design and run independent test on them stating what they require.
Spal has done the testing on their fans very extensively. I read the page and it took me a few minutes to understand how things work. For those that like to be educated cut down the T.V. and grab a nice frosty beverage. For the AFCO lovers leave now because I will expose the lies that were told.
In another thread, Yellow Horse took the time to figure out what he believed to be SPALS requirements and what was needed. I don't dispute what he did but he is wrong. (No harm meant there guy) Google has become the way of the world today. When you want to know something you don't do research you just google it. I googled SPALs website and briefly read over the low profile fans. Well now I will begin the explanation on how things work.
First and foremost the fans are tested on 13 Volts. I do not have the AFCO fans in front of me to get the exact part number to match up because SPAL does have a few sets that are 12 Volts but they even have 24 volt fans. Well from looking at the measurements (not a 100% certain) they are the 13 Volt version.
Now what struck me as odd is the way they are testing the puller fans but it makes sense so bare with me. THERE IS NO DEFINITE CURRENT DRAW FOR THE FAN. You can't just check the fans sitting still or moving because the current draw is constantly changing. How is that.
SPAL test the static pressure (The pressure exerted by a liquid or gas, especially water or air, when the bodies on which the pressure is exerted are not in motion) basically means they place a blockage in front of the fan or wind blowing against the fan to create static pressure. What is the point of this and what does it mean.
Looking at their chart which is measured using water and air (Water 1mm H2O= 0,04 in H20 and Air 1m3/h = 0,059 cfm) Now I know some have to ask what does that mean. In basic terms with the fan sitting in the open spinning there is a current draw. Well that is common sense. Now add static pressure (SP for short I will be using it a lot) something in front of the fan blocking it and making the fan pull through it will increase the current draw.
This is just an absurd representation to give you a general idea but I will get back to factual. The fan is running and pulls 8 amps. Depending on the SP on the fan the amperage can increase to as much as 12 amps. What in the world happened there.
Okay you placed the fans behind the H/E which blocks the fans ability to just pull air. It has to pull the air through the fins, across the core material, and also the thickness of the H/E. This is static pressure. There is a formula for calculating the SP and I have applied it to an old post where someone shows the measurements of AFCO's H/E.
When you run the fans on the H/E they have SP already applied to them. Drive the car down the street and the SP increase because of the air blowing through the fins against the fans. The SP increases with the speed of the car because the force of the air pressure against the fan increase. Note drive the car increases the SP and if you get caught in the rain you further increase SP because now you have water hitting the fans, clogging the fins of the H/E, and they have to pull all that through increasing SP and also current draw.
Now the fans that I looked at that seemed similiar to AFCO's ( and by some weird coindence drew 8 amps, who would have thunk it) draw 8 amps at 0 static pressure. That means they are in the open with nothing restricting airflow to the fans. Only problem is we have a restriction in front of them and that is the H/E. Now I won't bore you with the calculations but with let's just say 6in by 5 in mesh material ( pretty much like the screen on a window doubled) would create enough SP to move the current draw up to 8.7 amps. That is just a screen door screen doubled.
Okay now that we know just a piece of mesh material will increase SP what do you think happens driving the car down the road at 55mph does. The current draw can reach has high has 10.1 amps. Add a rain and were over the 12 amp area.
Now with a H/E with the numbers that I used off a post the SP will be around 29,64 in H2O. This will start the current draw off around 9.3 amps. This is just at idle and not moving with any added SP from the incoming air. Double this because of two fans and you are pulling 18.3 amps sitting there idling with 13 volts.
Who car is only putting out 13volts. The mustang puts out around 14.3-14.7 volts. Checked a few cars and depending on your tune and idle characteristics you will be putting out over 13volts at idle. The higher the voltage your putting out the more stress you place on the wires carrying the current. Current draw is what causes heat to be transmitted from the wire. With the fans sucking up 18.3 amps just idling the current draw will increase has you drive the car faster.
Now AFCO said they did the testing but how you can dispute what SPAL ( the makers of the fans not AFCO) says the fans need. Unless your placing them in a wind tunnel, have a car with them installed driving down the highway, pushing water against them you can in no way test the current draw of the fans. SPAL has done all that.
I'm not knocking them in anyway but your misleading the public when you say that the fans only draw 8 amps. If you go to they're website you will see they draw 8 amps without any SP. Once you apply the least amount the current draw increases. So like Tommie Lee Davis said in Rules of Engagement show me the tapes (test results). I don't believe that they exist but who am I.
SPAL further goes to the extreme of supplying two wiring harness for the fans because of the increase of SP over a wide spectrum to keep from melting wires from the increased current draw from SP being applied.
AFCO said they have reanalyzed their data but what data is that. How can they contradict what the manufacture of the fan says is necessary. Never once did they ever mention SP but that is all thats on SPALs site for figuring out what fans that you need. I have no (what's the saying Dog In This Fight) agenda in this but the truth must come out. To many times the consumer will buy a product and believe everything that is on the box without checking it out for themselves.
The Tornado comes to mind when I read the rebuttal that was posted by AFCO. Yeah it sounds great if you have their product and reassures you that they didn't never copy something and say its good. I'm not saying they didn't do any research but there is a lot of research that has been overlooked. I hope that something was learned from this. Now I will conclude this long and drawn out post.
There is a vendor who has done the work for you. Figured out what needed to be done to resolve the issue of SP and what will give you many years of service without any problems. He answers the phones on the weekend and anytime of night. Gives you guidance on products you don't even buy from him. Uses the products on his personal car and beats on it on a regular basis. Tests in elements you will never dare subject your car to. The research has been done, tested, proven, and lasted. Why are we saving a few dollars and being the test dummies for another company I will never understand. Let the flaming begin. I get off at 6 in the evening so all responses will not come from me until tomorrow. For now enjoy the Oil Threads because most still don't know what to use:bash:
There have been 1/2% percent failure rate with AFCO fan set up. (not the H/E just the fans that they use) Now I know the naysayers will come out here with their opinions (like Joe Friday I will just post the facts) Well after reading many of the posts of people melting fuses, burning up wires, and even burning up relays I figured there had to be some sort of a problem.
Is it AFCO's fault or just a bad joint here and there. Well I will keep this all factual and not say things like Meltco, On a quiet night you can hear an AFCO melt, for all the AFCO owners " Got Fans". That would be very childish and juvenile because it is bad enough we neglected posts by other H/E vendors about the products.
Heck if said vendor sells a product for say 50 bucks more with free shipping is it worth it. After you save the money with a cheaper product. Take the car apart to install and put it back together just to burn up. Take the car back apart to remove the burnt up harness and then purchase another harness from another vendor, tear the car back down, replace everything and put the car back together. Did you really save anything but thats not the point of this.
Here we go. There have been 8 different members that I can count and link to this thread that have problems with the SPAL fans. Now I have joked around and I still will because wiring is what I do. Now I can not understand for the life of me how a company can take anothers company patent design and run independent test on them stating what they require.
Spal has done the testing on their fans very extensively. I read the page and it took me a few minutes to understand how things work. For those that like to be educated cut down the T.V. and grab a nice frosty beverage. For the AFCO lovers leave now because I will expose the lies that were told.
In another thread, Yellow Horse took the time to figure out what he believed to be SPALS requirements and what was needed. I don't dispute what he did but he is wrong. (No harm meant there guy) Google has become the way of the world today. When you want to know something you don't do research you just google it. I googled SPALs website and briefly read over the low profile fans. Well now I will begin the explanation on how things work.
First and foremost the fans are tested on 13 Volts. I do not have the AFCO fans in front of me to get the exact part number to match up because SPAL does have a few sets that are 12 Volts but they even have 24 volt fans. Well from looking at the measurements (not a 100% certain) they are the 13 Volt version.
Now what struck me as odd is the way they are testing the puller fans but it makes sense so bare with me. THERE IS NO DEFINITE CURRENT DRAW FOR THE FAN. You can't just check the fans sitting still or moving because the current draw is constantly changing. How is that.
SPAL test the static pressure (The pressure exerted by a liquid or gas, especially water or air, when the bodies on which the pressure is exerted are not in motion) basically means they place a blockage in front of the fan or wind blowing against the fan to create static pressure. What is the point of this and what does it mean.
Looking at their chart which is measured using water and air (Water 1mm H2O= 0,04 in H20 and Air 1m3/h = 0,059 cfm) Now I know some have to ask what does that mean. In basic terms with the fan sitting in the open spinning there is a current draw. Well that is common sense. Now add static pressure (SP for short I will be using it a lot) something in front of the fan blocking it and making the fan pull through it will increase the current draw.
This is just an absurd representation to give you a general idea but I will get back to factual. The fan is running and pulls 8 amps. Depending on the SP on the fan the amperage can increase to as much as 12 amps. What in the world happened there.
Okay you placed the fans behind the H/E which blocks the fans ability to just pull air. It has to pull the air through the fins, across the core material, and also the thickness of the H/E. This is static pressure. There is a formula for calculating the SP and I have applied it to an old post where someone shows the measurements of AFCO's H/E.
When you run the fans on the H/E they have SP already applied to them. Drive the car down the street and the SP increase because of the air blowing through the fins against the fans. The SP increases with the speed of the car because the force of the air pressure against the fan increase. Note drive the car increases the SP and if you get caught in the rain you further increase SP because now you have water hitting the fans, clogging the fins of the H/E, and they have to pull all that through increasing SP and also current draw.
Now the fans that I looked at that seemed similiar to AFCO's ( and by some weird coindence drew 8 amps, who would have thunk it) draw 8 amps at 0 static pressure. That means they are in the open with nothing restricting airflow to the fans. Only problem is we have a restriction in front of them and that is the H/E. Now I won't bore you with the calculations but with let's just say 6in by 5 in mesh material ( pretty much like the screen on a window doubled) would create enough SP to move the current draw up to 8.7 amps. That is just a screen door screen doubled.
Okay now that we know just a piece of mesh material will increase SP what do you think happens driving the car down the road at 55mph does. The current draw can reach has high has 10.1 amps. Add a rain and were over the 12 amp area.
Now with a H/E with the numbers that I used off a post the SP will be around 29,64 in H2O. This will start the current draw off around 9.3 amps. This is just at idle and not moving with any added SP from the incoming air. Double this because of two fans and you are pulling 18.3 amps sitting there idling with 13 volts.
Who car is only putting out 13volts. The mustang puts out around 14.3-14.7 volts. Checked a few cars and depending on your tune and idle characteristics you will be putting out over 13volts at idle. The higher the voltage your putting out the more stress you place on the wires carrying the current. Current draw is what causes heat to be transmitted from the wire. With the fans sucking up 18.3 amps just idling the current draw will increase has you drive the car faster.
Now AFCO said they did the testing but how you can dispute what SPAL ( the makers of the fans not AFCO) says the fans need. Unless your placing them in a wind tunnel, have a car with them installed driving down the highway, pushing water against them you can in no way test the current draw of the fans. SPAL has done all that.
I'm not knocking them in anyway but your misleading the public when you say that the fans only draw 8 amps. If you go to they're website you will see they draw 8 amps without any SP. Once you apply the least amount the current draw increases. So like Tommie Lee Davis said in Rules of Engagement show me the tapes (test results). I don't believe that they exist but who am I.
SPAL further goes to the extreme of supplying two wiring harness for the fans because of the increase of SP over a wide spectrum to keep from melting wires from the increased current draw from SP being applied.
AFCO said they have reanalyzed their data but what data is that. How can they contradict what the manufacture of the fan says is necessary. Never once did they ever mention SP but that is all thats on SPALs site for figuring out what fans that you need. I have no (what's the saying Dog In This Fight) agenda in this but the truth must come out. To many times the consumer will buy a product and believe everything that is on the box without checking it out for themselves.
The Tornado comes to mind when I read the rebuttal that was posted by AFCO. Yeah it sounds great if you have their product and reassures you that they didn't never copy something and say its good. I'm not saying they didn't do any research but there is a lot of research that has been overlooked. I hope that something was learned from this. Now I will conclude this long and drawn out post.
There is a vendor who has done the work for you. Figured out what needed to be done to resolve the issue of SP and what will give you many years of service without any problems. He answers the phones on the weekend and anytime of night. Gives you guidance on products you don't even buy from him. Uses the products on his personal car and beats on it on a regular basis. Tests in elements you will never dare subject your car to. The research has been done, tested, proven, and lasted. Why are we saving a few dollars and being the test dummies for another company I will never understand. Let the flaming begin. I get off at 6 in the evening so all responses will not come from me until tomorrow. For now enjoy the Oil Threads because most still don't know what to use:bash:
op: with salt please.
