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Stealership guys - inside

Discussion in 'Road Side Pub' started by Grabber, Jun 21, 2016.

  1. Grabber

    Grabber Yep... Established Member

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    Hey Everyone,

    Hoping to hear from guys at Dealerships and get some feedback to "ease my mind" if you will.

    Over the course of my life of buying cars through dealers, I've never really had a "good" experience if you will. No matter what, I have to haggle, nearly beg for better trade in prices, or negotiate to not accept a car they have on a showroom that doesn't meet my wants in terms of options, etc.

    After my 5th Mustang, I'm tired of owning one and my heart isn't into it anymore.

    I'm looking at 2016-2017 Explorer Sport models and am going to be trading 2 cars in that currently have negative equity, but, not a lot on one.

    Realistically, what do you think a dealer will and maybe should offer me on my Mustang?

    2014 GT Premium
    Track Pack
    Leather Recaros
    Navigation
    Back-up Camera
    Parking Sensors

    Wait for it... 3,750 MILES on it. I'm the only owner, it's garage kept, amazing condition. I owe $30,200, give or take. Bought factory ordered.

    I know my 2008 Explorer I want to trade in I may only get 9-10K (XLT, 53,xxx Miles, 4X4, Sunroof, Tow hitch, running boards) and in excellent condition, no rust, dents, accidents, etc.

    I want to take away from this, more confidence of being firm and know I'm able to go to other places and not feel pressured on impulse and am hoping you guys can help me with that.

    Thanks for the feedback.

    -Chris
     
  2. Torch10th

    Torch10th I make hits Established Member

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    Part of having a good experience is having a good and correct mindset. You have to understand that a dealership is a business and they aren't in business to take losses. Many people have a mindset that they should be able to go in, get what they want out of their trade and the car they want for the price they want it at.

    That's unrealistic because there's no compromise in it. Once you realize that the dealership has a number and you have a number, it's easy to find middle ground. If you're unwilling or unable to find or take middle ground, there's the private market where you can dictate your terms a bit more. But it also comes with the hassle of doing it yourself and the possibility that your terms are such that you can't find a buyer.

    On your trades, the dealer is going to offer you typically what they can get out of the car with a bit of profit. Things like garage kept, adult driven, immaculate condition aren't really going to register on their radar unless they've already got a buyer lined up that wants your exact car in that type of condition. NADA is saying this car should trade on average for around 28k, but I think that's high to be honest with you.

    I'm not saying that you can't or shouldn't be firm, but if you have a stance of being unmoveable, that's usually where you start having issues with the dealer experience. Your number may be so unrealistic that the dealership wouldn't ever take it. If you're sitting there with the salesperson or with the finance guys continuiing to try and haggle them into a loss position, you're just wasting your time and theirs. Since the salesperson is likely paid on commission, that wasted time could be better spent with a different customer.

    What I like to do myself is build a bit of rapport with the salesperson and let them know I'm not there to waste their time or mine. I let them know where I want to be and I offer incentive to get the deal done. I like the, "I'm here to buy today" tactic as well as the letting them know that if they can get me at or close to my want/need that they can expect a perfect survey for the salesperson, dealer and service center.

    There's real money in 10's across the board on those surveys, so if they know you'll give them that and they know you'll actually do the survey as you state, many dealers are a bit more apt to give a little in my personal experience.

    Inevitably there will be a bit of haggling, but when the dealership knows you're there to buy and know where you need to be, they're less likely to play games with you. I have my number, but I'm willing to bend from it a little. If your number is absolutely your max budget and you're banking on getting the deal of a lifetime, you're going to leave the dealership empty handed and having wasted several hours of your time. Make sure that the car/s your looking at are solidly in your budget so you do have room to wiggle a bit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  3. Gary Macomber

    Gary Macomber Member Established Member

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    I am not a dealership person but I will say look at what incentives are active, I know they are pushing a military one nationwide so if you are military/former military that will help with negative equity as well as look for one for current ford owners, etc. My guess on trade in would be 25-27k.

    Best way to get a price you want on the current purchase is pit 2 dealerships against each other, if you are lucky like me I have a few of every dealership close by. Find exactly what you want at multiple dealerships, go to the closest one get their "bottom price" and call the other dealership, let them know what you are looking at and let them know what the other dealer is willing to do, they will beat it by $500, let the sales person you are with currently know and they will say well if we go another $500 down will you take it right now?

    I have done this a couple times for myself and other people, it works wonders. They want to make the deal and they want to make it immediately.
     
  4. Grabber

    Grabber Yep... Established Member

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    Thanks for the info guys.

    Realistically, I'm looking for $29,000-$30,000. There are 5 other cars I've seen at dealerships that don't have all of the options I do with similar miles or slightly less listed at $33,000-$36,000 and are actual used cars that have been titled.

    I'm prepared to take a bit of a hit, but, I don't know how I will react if they offer me $20,000 for my car and like $5,000 for my Explorer.

    Guaranteed if I find a dealer that will work with me and not put me too far into the red, I'll buy a car from them 100%. The other thing I factor is in them having to put money in to service the vehicles. Not the case with either of my trades.

    Mustang again, has 3,750 miles. Fully detailed and maintained by me. Fresh oil, tires are over 80%, brakes have more than 80% of life left on the pads, fluids are topped off, etc. Explorer has been maintained by me, tires have 12K miles on them and are a 50K mile rated tire, brakes are still in the green, recent alignment, oil changes maintained by a Ford Dealer, etc.

    I think at this point, them getting 2 trades and having to put very minimal amounts of time and money is a good sell point for them as they will make money on both and also make money on me buying a new car from them.

    We'll see what happens.
     
  5. Mpoitrast87

    Mpoitrast87 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    If its anything like the dealer I work at which is a Nissan dealer. There is really no negotiation. If we have a car you want, but you say you can get it 500 cheaper at the dealer one town over then we will tell you to take a walk. But every dealer is different.

    Also, we are brutal on trades. Someone came in with an 04 350z all options with 12k miles. Absolutely mint. KBB was like 16k. The dealer offered him 5k and would not budge.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  6. usmotox

    usmotox Living the Dream! Established Member

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    Hi, many years out from working in the auto trade industry but couple of things are very much the same today. Trade value is almost always a very big trouble spot. Dealerships use what is called "ACV" actual cash value today or this week to value your trade. This is typically established by what is called the "Black Book" It is a dealer subscribed publication of what similar vehicles sold for at auction based on a regional geographic area that your dealer is located in. That means most likely if the dealer does not want to wait to sell your trade retail what can he get in actual cash by taking the trade directly to the auction. End result is that your trade number will most likely be lower than the Kelly blue book trade number or the NADA loan value. As Torch said if you have a trade like your that are well maintained low mileage and not in need of anything more than detailing and retailing and they have a strong clean used car customer base they may step up a bit more to get the nice car for their lot. The black book has classification's from like rough book to extra clean book but most get set at about average book. Hope that helps with the always problematic what do you mean this is all my trade is worth dilemma.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  7. sleek98

    sleek98 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Looking at manheim there are a couple in the dealer for sale section with under 5k miles 2013/2014 only. 2 @ 25k and one at 27.5k (its a track pack/electronics pack with 4,402 miles)

    Below is the Market report for all premiums sold in the last month and last week. one is for the midwest only the other is for the nation.

    I would expect them to offer 25k on the mustang to start and likely bump up to 27/28k.

    2016-06-21%2014_10_42-Program%20Manager_zps6cggqpwv.gif

    2016-06-21%2014_11_14-Program%20Manager_zps9y6kahfy.gif
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  8. Torch10th

    Torch10th I make hits Established Member

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    Having two vehicles to trade can actually work against you. It complicates the deal a little bit, especially if there is negative equity involved. It may be worth it in your position to try and sell the vehicle that's closest to breaking even in the private market. If you receive additional money on top of what you owe, put that money as an additional down payment trading the other vehicle.

    Regardless of how nice your cars are or how well you've kept them, the dealer is still going to do their inspections and cleanup on it. They will never simply take your word that it's as clean as you say it is, so don't expect that to help the price in your corner. This also only helps if they are planning on keeping the cars on the lot. The majority of the cars are simply going to be trucked off to the auction. You have to get out of that mindset that because you think your car is exceptional (whether that's true or not) that the dealer will give you more money for it. They won't.

    You have to expect the dealer to low ball you if you are low balling them. That's that mutual respect and rapport that I was talking about in my first post here. If you go at them that they need to give you top dollar for your trade and low ball them on the price of their vehicle, expect the dealer to reply in kind. Out of the 12 or so new cars that I have purchased I have never had what I would describe as a poor experience at a dealer and a lot of that was simply because I kept my expectations in check. I don't mean to be harsh, but based on how you're wanting this deal to go, it doesn't surprise me that you've had poor experiences in the past.

    As sleek pointed out, I think he's right on the money that you're probably going to be offered initially around 24-25k for your car. You may get another 1000-1500 out of it with a bit of haggling. If you do get a ridiculous low ball offer, that's probably a place you should avoid unless the absolutely have 100% the car you want on their lot.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  9. oldmodman

    oldmodman Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Sell both vehicles private party.

    Then go to a dealer with the money to spend. No trade in.

    Might work slightly against you since dealers make more money selling used cars than they do new ones in a lot of cases. They want good, clean trade ins but only when the dollars work in their favor.
     
  10. T56LS102

    T56LS102 Active Member Established Member

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    I would also keep Carmax in mind, never hurts to see what they will offer..
     
  11. Blk04L

    Blk04L . . . Premium Member Established Member

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    I've heard 13Cobra loves that place, and really wants to work there instead. :dancenana:

    Might not be a bad place to go for a base/low point, but usually a dealer can beat their price without a long negotiation.
     
  12. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    I see two problems and both are how you represent yourself op.
    First you want the help advice of those that work at a dealership but start off by calling them thieves.
    Second you want to buy a 50k vehicle and yet you can't pay or cover the two vehicles that you currently own, hence the negative equity in both.

    How much does it cost in ttl fees in il? In ca it's nearly 10% which would mean 5k that you're spending on nothing. 50k vehicle + 5k ttl + 5k neg eq equals a 60k cost for a vehicle that will be worth maybe 45k soon as you sign the financing. Are you going to finance the entire 60k? Do you have any down payment?

    Better option is to sell the mustang pay off the 08 and save. Buy 16 sport in 18 used for 35k.
     
  13. Grabber

    Grabber Yep... Established Member

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    So, just to clear some things up.

    The thread title was "sarcasm" and a poke toward one of the dealer guys I know here (13COBRA)

    2nd, I make plenty of money to cover both cars. Here in lies the issue.

    I bought the Mustang and then the Explorer. I don't drive my Mustang in Winter. Reason for the 2nd car. I've had the Explorer for one year. THIS is the reason for negative equity, not because I cannot afford to make payments. I've had the Mustang for 2 years now, again, THIS is the reason for negative equity.

    Good example of where my sarcasm stems from aside from the jokes that 13COBRA throws out which cracks me up.

    I traded in my 07 GT as my wife (was my wife's car at time of trade in since I bought another car) and bought a Volt. The dealer ship offered her 14K and even though the car was in an accident, we were expecting a 10K offer. They sold it for over $19,500 and here's the interesting part. The owner came by and thanked me and said this is one of the cleanest and most presented cars they've seen come through here.

    Now, I'm sure the dealer will "clean it up" but, my work of hundreds of hours of detailing on a higher than amateur level show when people see the cars I own. Again, they didn't need to spend money on detailing it, buffing the paint, cleaning the carpets, interior, etc. It was ready to be sold. They had the car listed in 1 day after I traded it in. They made over $5,000 on that sale, maybe a bit less depending on the internal fees and such dealers have.

    Now, moving on. My heart is no longer in my Mustang. My wife and I are planning on having kids, and a Mustang is not an ideal choice and we do not need 3 cars, since she has her Volt which will be paid off in 2 years. I want something I can drive all the time and have room for my Bikes, detailing equipment, moving large pieces of furniture, etc. and I want something new. I've mostly had used cars my whole life so this is why I'm trying to trade up.

    Personally, I wouldn't low-ball a dealer, but, I shouldn't have to deal with them trying their hardest to convince me my car is worth shit.

    Taxes are 10% here, but, you pay the difference between trade ins and the cost of the new vehicle. So, in this case, It would be $28,000-$30,000 + $9,000-$10,000 (Oh, the price you listed at 50K is WAY more than I would end up paying. I've already found a Sport with a 401A option which is what we want for $43,xxx.) and the difference is taxed. We would pay tax on roughly 7-9K which saves me some money.

    I started this thread with the notion in my mind I'd be taking a hit, again , NOT because I am behind on payments or something retarded, but, because of how new the lein on my cars are. I know I will lost money on this.

    Part of my reason to part my Mustang out and make a few thousand back is to pay down my cars more so the hit is not as bad.

    Hope this explains it and you don't take anything I'm saying as me being arrogant, or overly-sarcastic, etc.

    I'm just trying to get an idea from different people other than posting on a local forum where more people know of me and will probably give me a hard time about selling my cars so quickly or changing my mind, etc.
     
  14. Zemedici

    Zemedici Well-Known Member Established Member

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    As stated above, sell both private party. That way YOU control what you sell it for.

    Also i'd check with carmax. You'd be surprised.
     
  15. Rct851

    Rct851 Well-Known Member Established Member

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    I'd be happy with 24k for the stang. And holy smokes at your mods and already trading in a car that had to of been 37k with all the options.

    Y'all make me feel like such a pussy with my wallet
     
  16. wjfawb0

    wjfawb0 Member Established Member

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    I test drove and looked at a 2014 GT Mustang with 7,300 miles and the basic interior and no real options over the weekend. They were asking $28k and would only come down to $27,500. Based on that, you can probably get close to what you owe on the car private party. Trade in, expect a grand or more less. I bought my 2015 GT mustang with 27,000 miles for $29k at a carmax. It sounds like your lower miles and options would warrant close to that price. They have a bunch of low mile 2014 models on their website.
     
  17. Grabber

    Grabber Yep... Established Member

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    Carmax - Well, I've gone to them twice. Both times, they were over $5,000 less than poor condition of KBB and the car was more than that.

    I was offered $13,000 for my 10th Anniversay 03 Cobra with 27K miles that had maybe 2 paint chips, no accidents, scratches, etc. They said because I had aftermarket Subframe connectors my car had Frame damage which is why they offered me what they did.

    Sold it for $20,000 Private Party a week later.

    I almost want to avoid private party sale as it took forever to try and sell my Mach 1 and I had people calling me daily and showed the car about 20 times with zero serious buyers. Found a replacement I wanted, took it to the dealer, had a deal done within 1-2 days and an agreed price.
     
  18. ON D BIT

    ON D BIT Finish First Established Member

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    Ok. Then pay off your cars pay cash for the sport after the trade. It's not hard:poke: /thread!:beer:
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2016
  19. Zemedici

    Zemedici Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Ah. It sounds like an inexperienced salesman/appraiser. However, you're going to get reamed at any dealership if you're trading in a modified car. Just gotta think of it this way. For every 1 customer that wants to buy something modified, the will have 100 customers that DONT. Your best bet in that case would be to 'de mod' your mustang and trade in that way. You could recoup your costs, and with parts you dont have the shady bullshitters like you do with vehicles.

    Hope this helps.
     
  20. Zemedici

    Zemedici Well-Known Member Established Member

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    And money's relative, my friend. All of us are in different places in our lives, and our finances reflect that. Hell all of my friends are 30+, so i'm 'broke' comparatively speaking. :D
     

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