Stock motor limits

TheBorkinator

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I know there have been plenty of these threads pop up and the general consensus I see is that around 650 rwhp is the limit for the 11-14 coyote on pump gas. What I haven't been able to find out is WHY that's the limit. What breaks?

My car has Paxton 2200 sl with jlt intake,beefcake torque booster and waste gate, 50 mm Tial bov, kooks 1 7/8 shorty headers, and a catless xpipe to make 641 rwhp 557 torque.

My car has stock intake manifold and stock throttle body. If I went with a cobra jet intake and larger throttle body with long tubes instead of shorties, I would be well past that 650 mark. Would I not be able to do that? At this point is my only option for more power to go with a whole new shortblock?

All this is on 93. E85 is just too hit or miss around here for me to trust it.
 

milas

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Everything I've read is the rods will fail sometime after ~650 since they're not forged, and after ~800 the pistons are no good since they're not forged or coated. If you look at comparisons of the stock rods vs. Forged manley rods you can see the difference.

I don't think 650 is a magic number, it can happen due to a number of conditions at higher or lower HP, just the probability of failure starts going up significantly at that power level. Good tunes and fuel can save you from detonation or other failure modes, but the stock bottom end wasn't made to handle that power level for long.

I just cracked 650 on a stock 2014 block, and I'm looking to get my short block built to prevent failure. I get nervous going wot, but I still do it and haven’t failed yet. However, I know it's just a matter of time and probability.

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basspro302

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I wouldn't go with the cobra jet and Paxton unless you have some one who is willing to tune it. I may be wrong but with a Paxton and cj getting the drivability dialed in might be a headache.

I would invest that money in a 15 and up short block you should be able to pick one up for under 2.5k.

The rods are weak in the 11-14 that's why most stay around 600whp. 15s and up have boss rods in them.

I'm in the same boat I want more power but I don't want to push the stock block any harder with my procharger
 

fordman2012

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would you be going with the spacer to fit the cobra jet manifold on with the paxon setup? I was debating the Paxton setup but with the research that I have done if I went that direction I would have to sell my CJ manifold and go with a boss or stock manifold.
 

TheBorkinator

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I haven't actually done much research into how the cobra jet would interact with the paxton, but I could just do the Boss manifold instead. I was just thinking Cobra Jet because it's generally considered better and uses a larger TB. I guess that isn't an option then if it doesn't play nice with the Paxton.
 

Riddick

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There is no weak link in the mighty Coyote engine, pulley that thing down and hang on.

On a serious note it would be rods followed by the pistons. There are several cars making over 700 on e-85 and stock long block. Dont get to focused on what hp "number" is the magical number. Keep your tune safe, dont rev the piss out of it and it will more than likely stay together for awhile.
 

slow306stang

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My car in its current state makes a good amount of power with the stock engine and mt82. I keep the RPM low and the octane high.

My car has a wastegated d1sc at 11.6psi, meth injection, e85, and i shift around 7000rpm. Its been 9.8 at 143mph as a best and has 15 passes in the 141-143mph range.

I think i could push the car harder but i dont want to hurt the heads. Its time for a built short block in it.
 

milas

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My car in its current state makes a good amount of power with the stock engine and mt82. I keep the RPM low and the octane high.

My car has a wastegated d1sc at 11.6psi, meth injection, e85, and i shift around 7000rpm. Its been 9.8 at 143mph as a best and has 15 passes in the 141-143mph range.

I think i could push the car harder but i dont want to hurt the heads. Its time for a built short block in it.
That's a LOT of power! What year engine is it?

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oldbones

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This is what I just did, but a built motor is still costly. By the time you put OPG, crank sprocket, block, pistons, rods and all the other stuff in you're still out an easy $4500 bucks. I went the extreme and added ported heads, crank scrapers, windage control and cams. I'm scared to know what the total price on this motor will end up at when I get the build finished.
 

TheBorkinator

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This is what I just did, but a built motor is still costly. By the time you put OPG, crank sprocket, block, pistons, rods and all the other stuff in you're still out an easy $4500 bucks. I went the extreme and added ported heads, crank scrapers, windage control and cams. I'm scared to know what the total price on this motor will end up at when I get the build finished.


Honestly if I could have my car driving around with a built motor for $4500 I'd be good with that. Shop I have my work done at quoted me a bare minimum of $10k.
 

milas

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Any input on what a short block remove and replace should cost at a shop if you just buy a new forged short block?

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UnleashedBeast

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The Twin Turbo car I built is currently at ~13 PSI of boost making power above the 700 rwhp range, on it's 3rd owner, and the only thing that was broken twice is the transmission. The only modification I made to the engine was oil pump gears.
 

TheBorkinator

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The Twin Turbo car I built is currently at ~13 PSI of boost making power above the 700 rwhp range, on it's 3rd owner, and the only thing that was broken twice is the transmission. The only modification I made to the engine was oil pump gears.

I'm going to assume on e85?
 

GNBRETT

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lol yea I hear that I'm in the same boat. I did pay for the motor up front but not the head porting and whatever else I can't think of smh.

I thought about jus re-using my block but decided to sleeve a new block. yea shit adds up quick.

its never seems to be a warm and fuzzy feeling getting that last bill before pick-up. I have learned to price it $1500 more then I thought.

I can say on the street at 630 whp on a Mustang dyno my 2013 bent a rod at about a 70 mph roll on. but, it had made at least a dozen mid 9 second passes as 145-146 mph before doing so.

so I guess if u do the math it was makn about 850 hp to move a 3850 lb car with driver to 145 mph so there is no magical number. its time and abuse that says it all. and with a weak rice-crispy designed rod I'm surprised it lasted that long.

This is what I just did, but a built motor is still costly. By the time you put OPG, crank sprocket, block, pistons, rods and all the other stuff in you're still out an easy $4500 bucks. I went the extreme and added ported heads, crank scrapers, windage control and cams. I'm scared to know what the total price on this motor will end up at when I get the build finished.
 

Famine

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Where can you find a 2015 short block for 2.5k?

I wouldn't go with the cobra jet and Paxton unless you have some one who is willing to tune it. I may be wrong but with a Paxton and cj getting the drivability dialed in might be a headache.

I would invest that money in a 15 and up short block you should be able to pick one up for under 2.5k.

The rods are weak in the 11-14 that's why most stay around 600whp. 15s and up have boss rods in them.

I'm in the same boat I want more power but I don't want to push the stock block any harder with my procharger
 

bunits19714

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Where can you find a 2015 short block for 2.5k?
tasca. white bear lake, parts giant- there not 2500 there only 18xx- price drop in December - I bought one and sold my 14 sb for 1600 it was a no brainer- I then added head studs, opg, crank sprocket, new ati balancer for my PC crank pulley- so I added plenty of extras- used my stock 14 heads and I upgraded to new tensioners and another part in there- you do get charged 500 core but if your motor is still running it is worth way more then 500.
 

Famine

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tasca. white bear lake, parts giant- there not 2500 there only 18xx- price drop in December - I bought one and sold my 14 sb for 1600 it was a no brainer- I then added head studs, opg, crank sprocket, new ati balancer for my PC crank pulley- so I added plenty of extras- used my stock 14 heads and I upgraded to new tensioners and another part in there- you do get charged 500 core but if your motor is still running it is worth way more then 500.

Nice. Now if I just had the knowhow to do all those extras as well.
 

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