Stopped beyond stop sign yet prior to instersection - ticket?

69fb

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Is this a reasonable ticket?

I was stopped/ticketed for rolling through a stop sign that:

1.) Is poorly placed at an intersection such that if a person stops at the sign they cannot see traffic coming from the left.

2.) There is not a painted "limit line" at the sign or anywhere at the intersection


I went through the sign and stopped prior to entering the next roadway so I could see traffic from my left. I was pulled over and given a ticket with a charge of "Obedience to traffice control devices" which the officer claimed he was "cutting me a break" and this would not affect my insurance and is a fine-only charge.

This is in PA.

I'm thinking about taking a picture of the sign, the lack of a limit line, what the sideview mirror shows (doesn't show) when actually stopped at the sign, and stating to the judge that I did come to a 100% complete stop prior to entering the intersection.

Is the above a reasonable defense, or do PA stop sign laws require a person to stop at the sign no matter what?
 

LS2GTO

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It's not just PA, but all states require you to stop at the sign no matter where it is located. The 'proper' procedure in your case would have been to stop at the stop sign, then move up to the intersection and proceed accordingly (which might include stopping again to see other traffic).

You can try the poorly placed sign and just say that you stopped ahead of it for the real intersection, but it's not guaranteed to be thrown out.
 

FordSVTFan

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It's not just PA, but all states require you to stop at the sign no matter where it is located. The 'proper' procedure in your case would have been to stop at the stop sign, then move up to the intersection and proceed accordingly (which might include stopping again to see other traffic).

You can try the poorly placed sign and just say that you stopped ahead of it for the real intersection, but it's not guaranteed to be thrown out.

Agreed.

Improperly placed sign will not get you anywhere unless you can prove that the sign is not placed in accordance with the law or the DOT rules. Your opinion is not a factor in proper placement. The judge will tell you there was no reason for you not to stop at the sign as required then proceed cautiously to the intersection.
 

SonicDTR

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Stop at the plane of the sign, then move forward.

Sounds like the ticket was justified to me.
 

svtcop

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Just a question...or two.

How many car lengths were you past the sign before you stopped?

I have a stop sign I like to sit on from time to time that a Daycare is right at the corner of. I don't hide, I sit in plain view less than 40 feet from the sign. People will be damn near through it before they see me and just lock up their brakes and stop in the middle of the intersection.

That wouldn't sound familiar would it?
 

thepizz

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Here is a good idea...STOP at the STOP sign! I believe that's what they're intended for, or maybe I'm just mis-informed.:burn:
 

ZWilson07

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Im obviously not a LEO or laywer so you can only take what I say for what its worth, but I was always taught, even from family members that were in law enforcement that the best thing to do is first come to a complete stop right before a stop sign and if you can't see down the road or traffic, to slowly roll forward a small amount until you can and then pause again before making a decision to pull out.
 

svtcop

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Im obviously not a LEO or laywer so you can only take what I say for what its worth, but I was always taught, even from family members that were in law enforcement that the best thing to do is first come to a complete stop right before a stop sign and if you can't see down the road or traffic, to slowly roll forward a small amount until you can and then pause again before making a decision to pull out.

Yeppers!

I remember losing my only point on my driver test when was 16 for stopping at the sign but the intersection required me to edge out a little to observe oncoming traffic.
 

ZWilson07

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Yeppers!

I remember losing my only point on my driver test when was 16 for stopping at the sign but the intersection required me to edge out a little to observe oncoming traffic.

Well glad to see my dad's early driving lessons weren't for nothing lol. Learning to drive a stick at 12 on the farm and him taking me to empty parking lots and setting up obstacle courses using things like chairs and garbage cans were def eye openers lol. Its one thing to turn in and out between cones at 35 mph when you've never drove before, its another when there is garbage cans and chairs used as cones, and you knowing if you hit one you just damaged the car we just rode in and I will be in tons of trouble. Or having to drive in reverse down a solid line using only my rearview and side mirrors to keep it perfectly centered at 45 mph, or even little tricks like if oncoming cars lights are blinding you, just to use the right side line by putting it just to the right of the center mark of the hood to keep you going down the road straight or make it through the turn safely without being blinded. All the little things def helped me out now even though at the time you don't really think they are to important, but really all the little tricks and hints as well as one of the most important things to remember is always being a good defensive driver go farther than any video or book you could read.

Between him being retired louisville metro, uncle being head of drug task force/detective for louisville metro, other uncle for a smaller country department, grand farther retired fbi now cheif of police for local police department, and godfarther thats retired state marshall I pretty much was always listening to some story or advice lol. Ive never had a wreck or ticket so far and ive been driving for 6 years so guess im either very good or very lucky, and ill take either one.
 

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