Supercharged 5.2 discussion

[biminiLX]

Well we finally have the GT500 introduction and most discussion is centered around forgoing a manual trans for DCT.
I’m happy for this but more interested in the engine—simply stated as a 5.2 CPC with Eaton 2650TVS. No SAE ratings or many details.
What have you guys seen?
Things I can think of from hearing FP employees on different vids:
New casting 5.2 plasma lined fortified block
New connecting rods
New valves and possibly new head castings
New oil pan
I heard rumors of 12psi but I know calibration is not complete. Hoping for 14-15psi stock.
Compression ratio 10:1 sounds about right.
Blower pulley looks beefy.
No mention of billet OPGs
CNC heads like GT350?
I’m guessing 780hp range SAE by the time their done and hoping there’s a stout bottom end for safe 1000hp.
Any thoughts?
Tob?
-J

 

[TERMN8U]

I think you are right on.

 

[SonicDTR]

I'm just wondering why they didn't go direct injection. I know the American Muscle video said there simply wasn't enough room, but that seems like a big compromise. Thoughts?

 

[biminiLX]

Direct and port injection combo is great for boosted potential but I agree I think they just didn’t have real estate in the engine valley with the big blower.
A twin turbo combo with dual injection and a DCT would have been glorious
-J

 

[72MachOne99GT]

I thought the limited space for aftermarket throttle body/elbows was an interesting point to bring up.

The 13/14s seemed to show big gains by opening up its ability to breathe, hopefully this powerplant is better equipped from the factory. Edit: or won’t be as difficult to make aftermarket changes in these areas as alluded to

 

[biminiLX]

Good point as any PD blower makes more power with less inlet restriction. Basically in terms of power, you can’t go too big on TB. This new inverted 5.2 seems to have the TB not as compromised as other front feed designs. A good sign for power potential.
If the block and rotator can hang, I know the 5.2/2650 combo will make 1000hp pretty easily. Nowadays power is the easy part
-J

 

[Handlebar Moustache]

I'm just wondering why they didn't go direct injection. I know the American Muscle video said there simply wasn't enough room, but that seems like a big compromise. Thoughts?

I was wondering the same. Isn't that basically what they did with the Coyote in the beginning? Gives them some room to pump up the power each year to keep the market excited maybe.

 

[Tob]

J, you're beyond my realm here. I had 725hp with the FRPP 2.9 Whipple kit I added to my '09 GT500. That was more than enough power for me. If this thing is more than that right off the floor? Brother, I'll be honest here...I'll leave well enough alone with respect to the engine and focus on other things. I'm still digging for all the details as to what makes this engine different, and I mean all the details - everything. But when it comes to being able to unleash that kind of power I'm content!

For now anyway.

 

[maverick0817]

I just hope the ECU isn't encrypted like the one in the C7 ZR1.

 

[biminiLX]

J, you're beyond my realm here. I had 725hp with the FRPP 2.9 Whipple kit I added to my '09 GT500. That was more than enough power for me. If this thing is more than that right off the floor? Brother, I'll be honest here...I'll leave well enough alone with respect to the engine and focus on other things. I'm still digging for all the details as to what makes this engine different, and I mean all the details - everything. But when it comes to being able to unleash that kind of power I'm content!

For now anyway.

Haha, well put.
The key on this one, to me, is exactly as you said—leave well enough alone.
I’m hoping to do very minimal mods to this car, much like my previous ‘04 Cobra—pulley, mild intake and exhaust.
Still, the engineer side of me wants to know the details on this new Powertrain. I have faith you and the other SVTP sleuths will find exactly what upgrades were done to the 5.2 for blower duty.
-J

 

[Tob]

I hope Adam Christian was behind a lot of it as he was the force behind the Voodoo 5.2L engine. I wish I was in Detroit to press Carl as to who was behind it this time around. Hopefully Ford goes waay deeper than what we've seen as there is going to be some silence from here on in and I think they need to keep this thing going now that they revealed what was behind the door. Momentum can live or die from this point on.

 

[TheVikingRL]

I'm curious how they are going to get that much power to the ground effectively. If the GT500 winds up being nose heavy then it becomes another numbers car and difficult to replicate test numbers in any real word situation (ie, Hellcat/Redeye/Demon). Would like to have seen some efforts on improving weight distribution/CoG.

 

[Tob]

That was a big part as to the move to a DCT - consistency behind big power.

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

I'm curious how they are going to get that much power to the ground effectively. If the GT500 winds up being nose heavy then it becomes another numbers car and difficult to replicate test numbers in any real word situation (ie, Hellcat/Redeye/Demon). Would like to have seen some efforts on improving weight distribution/CoG.

•The trans is heavy, very low, and mounted under the dash aft the wheels obviously. ~280lbs set low and mid.

•supercharger is set in the intake valley to lower the center of gravity, it’s cooler is above it. Coolers are light-20lbs maybe. Putting the 70lbs supercharger in the center drops the cog by 5-8”.

•the front most weight is carbon composite. That is the entire front clip.

•none of the cars you listed have 18lbs carbon fiber wheels. That alone makes hooking up at any speed or load much easier. Heavy wheels create centrifugal forces. This is worse than 1-2% of weight balance. Reining in the forces of 5-10lbs of additional mass of unsprung weight at each corner via suspension geometry and components is similar to the task of managing 500-1000lbs of sprung weight. I’d much rather have a car with 54/47 and 18lbs wheels to launch than 53/47 and 25lbs wheels.

One other way to put your mind at ease is simply to suggest you lookup how well supercharged gt’s and gt350’s hook up.

 

[ANGREY]

I wish Ford would go back to the firing order they had on the modular. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that the flathead firing order sounds like dogisht. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TVS a roots blower? I wonder why the major manufacturers stay with roots instead of a true twin screw.

 

[gfcobra04]

I’m guessing 780hp range SAE by the time their done and hoping there’s a stout bottom end for safe 1000hp.
Any thoughts?
Tob?
-J

I thought it was stated something about after the tuners get ahold of the car the power level will go higher.

 

[Tob]

•the front most weight is carbon composite. That is the entire front clip.

The GT350 carryover GOR panel from BASF/MAGNA indeed offers substantial savings.

Outside of the skin at the very fore end of the vehicle (the fascia), I'd argue that the bumper was of significant savings as well. Not as high off the ground as the GOR but Ford's decision to use an aluminum extrusion on the GT350 (and most likely the new GT500 as well) offers significant savings over the steel bumper used on lesser models. The aluminum bumper is extremely light.

I'd like to be able to argue that the SMC composite hood and fenders offered up some savings as well but at this point I'm of the understanding that there was a net gain here.

 

[SoCalShark]

I just posted that I think this will be near 772hp out of the box. The motors will be boosted ready for some great power gains limited by Octane/Fuel as normal.

 

[Dusten]

I wish Ford would go back to the firing order they had on the modular. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that the flathead firing order sounds like dogisht. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TVS a roots blower? I wonder why the major manufacturers stay with roots instead of a true twin screw.

Because in stock applications at lower boost and lower blower speeds, the tvs blower is typically more efficient.

Turn up the boost and obviously that changes.

 

[Handlebar Moustache]

I wish Ford would go back to the firing order they had on the modular. MY PERSONAL OPINION is that the flathead firing order sounds like dogisht. And someone correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the TVS a roots blower? I wonder why the major manufacturers stay with roots instead of a true twin screw.

What Dusten said...plus they are cheaper/help keep costs down. Ford and Chebby's cost/benefit analysis leaned TVS. Dodge's didn't.

Dodge uses IHI twin screw blowers on the Hellcat and Demon.