Suspension thoughts and suggestions!

Crazy jok3r

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Hi

I am ready to start working on my suspension for my car, and I already have BMR non adjustable lower control arms, and BMR lower control arm relocation bracket. I use my car for a daily driver, and I also want to set up my car suspension for circuit track fun. Plus I also want to help my car hook since its hard to keep her power down to the pavement. Here is a list of suspension mods I want to do first since I don't have enough money to buy it all at once.

Maximum Motorsports Caster Camber
Koni Sport Adjustable Front Strut
Viking Performance Warrior Series Double Adjustable Rear Shock
H&R Super Sport Springs: Drop Front- 1.7, Rear-2.4
BMR Adjustable Rear Upper Control Arm with Mount
BMR Differential Bushing Kit
BMR Adjustable Panhard Bar


Then eventually I would get these Items when I get more money.

BMR Adjustable Front Sway Bar
BMR Xtreme Rear Sway Bar Kit

I would like your thoughts and suggestions about this setup.


Thanks!
 

sur_real1

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I was in your shoes late last year with how to start setting up my chassis to make it more stable, handle squat and dive more gracefully, and tighten up my turning. I spent hours upon hours researching how to get what I wanted with a limited budget out of my S197. I've done this for previous chassis's, but the S197 is pretty different.

After calling local shops, maximum motorsports, steeda, and BMR, I finally came up with a small list of parts to help me along my path (not the end list).

Parts I went with:
BMR Watts Link Rod End Link
BMR LCA, Adjustable UCA
BMR Relocation Brackets
BMR 5 way adjustable front sway bar
Steeda Pro-Action Shocks/Struts
Steeda Sport Springs 175lb's all around (still soft for me)

After installing all of the parts, there was some adjustment that needed to happen, mainly due to the lightness of the springs and the size of my tires.

Watts link adjustments:
The BMR unit is retardedly adjustable. At the end of the day, the best adjustment for my car was setting the roll center as low as possible. Since the Steeda springs didn't lower the center of gravity that far, my roll center was now below my center of gravity quite a bit. What this has done has allowed the rear end to "rotate" with the front, rather than "swing" when turning, giving me plenty of grip in the longer sweeping turns, but not quite as tight feeling in the short turns. I have two options to alleviate this as I'm not increasing my roll center:
1. Stiffer rear springs and better dampers, i.e. coil overs with adjustable damping or going to a 200 to 240 lb spring.
2. Upgrade my rear sway bar to a boss or adjustable rear sway bar.
I'm opting for option 1 for the moment as I'd really like a much more controlled rear end, but maintain good traction in undulating road conditions. Making the sway (stabilizer) bar thicker will most definitely give me additional rigidity in the rear and a tighter turn in feel, but I have more opportunity to loose traction in turns that are also off camber.

Lower control arm adjustment:
This really comes down to your driving style. With the LCA's facing down towards the front and up towards the rear, you'll get more wheel spin when launching and turns may feel tighter, but control may be unpredictable at the limit. With the LCA's facing the opposite direction, launches at the drag strip will be better as the suspension on the rear will be loading up and pushing the car up in the rear and forward. For daily driving, or open track, I have come to understand that the more level the LCA's are, the happier you'll be.

Front sway bar:
This one I played with quite a bit, and I think it's the most interesting one as I can see myself playing with this bar more and more than any other adjustment on the car. Tire size, traction rating, and ability to just plain stick play rolls in when I started to adjust this piece. Funny enough, I've got it on the "next to stiffest" setting. So far, my 245 Bridgestone Potenza S04's (which are still brand new) are holding up, but as they wear down, the front will start to push and I will either soften the front sway bar or buy new tires pre-maturely. Of note, I run a staggered tire setup with 275 Bridgestones out back. The front tires have a tread width of 9" where as the rear tread width is 10", so not a huge difference, but having the rear a suspension softer than the front does set me up more for understeer as the front tires lose their grip.

Some videos I watched on suspension to help me along:
Dive and squat explained by Cortex:
Flat ride explained by fat cat suspension:

I have serious plans to upgrade to some nice JRZ coil overs. I'm still on the fence to get away from a staggered tire setup, but I do want to run 275's up front. Whether I go 275 out back or at least a 295, which would be a similar setup to what I have now, but wider all around.

Just my .02.
 

Crazy jok3r

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Established Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2012
Messages
84
Location
Anchorage Ak
I was in your shoes late last year with how to start setting up my chassis to make it more stable, handle squat and dive more gracefully, and tighten up my turning. I spent hours upon hours researching how to get what I wanted with a limited budget out of my S197. I've done this for previous chassis's, but the S197 is pretty different.

After calling local shops, maximum motorsports, steeda, and BMR, I finally came up with a small list of parts to help me along my path (not the end list).

Parts I went with:
BMR Watts Link Rod End Link
BMR LCA, Adjustable UCA
BMR Relocation Brackets
BMR 5 way adjustable front sway bar
Steeda Pro-Action Shocks/Struts
Steeda Sport Springs 175lb's all around (still soft for me)

After installing all of the parts, there was some adjustment that needed to happen, mainly due to the lightness of the springs and the size of my tires.

Watts link adjustments:
The BMR unit is retardedly adjustable. At the end of the day, the best adjustment for my car was setting the roll center as low as possible. Since the Steeda springs didn't lower the center of gravity that far, my roll center was now below my center of gravity quite a bit. What this has done has allowed the rear end to "rotate" with the front, rather than "swing" when turning, giving me plenty of grip in the longer sweeping turns, but not quite as tight feeling in the short turns. I have two options to alleviate this as I'm not increasing my roll center:
1. Stiffer rear springs and better dampers, i.e. coil overs with adjustable damping or going to a 200 to 240 lb spring.
2. Upgrade my rear sway bar to a boss or adjustable rear sway bar.
I'm opting for option 1 for the moment as I'd really like a much more controlled rear end, but maintain good traction in undulating road conditions. Making the sway (stabilizer) bar thicker will most definitely give me additional rigidity in the rear and a tighter turn in feel, but I have more opportunity to loose traction in turns that are also off camber.

Lower control arm adjustment:
This really comes down to your driving style. With the LCA's facing down towards the front and up towards the rear, you'll get more wheel spin when launching and turns may feel tighter, but control may be unpredictable at the limit. With the LCA's facing the opposite direction, launches at the drag strip will be better as the suspension on the rear will be loading up and pushing the car up in the rear and forward. For daily driving, or open track, I have come to understand that the more level the LCA's are, the happier you'll be.

Front sway bar:
This one I played with quite a bit, and I think it's the most interesting one as I can see myself playing with this bar more and more than any other adjustment on the car. Tire size, traction rating, and ability to just plain stick play rolls in when I started to adjust this piece. Funny enough, I've got it on the "next to stiffest" setting. So far, my 245 Bridgestone Potenza S04's (which are still brand new) are holding up, but as they wear down, the front will start to push and I will either soften the front sway bar or buy new tires pre-maturely. Of note, I run a staggered tire setup with 275 Bridgestones out back. The front tires have a tread width of 9" where as the rear tread width is 10", so not a huge difference, but having the rear a suspension softer than the front does set me up more for understeer as the front tires lose their grip.

Some videos I watched on suspension to help me along:
Dive and squat explained by Cortex:
Flat ride explained by fat cat suspension:

I have serious plans to upgrade to some nice JRZ coil overs. I'm still on the fence to get away from a staggered tire setup, but I do want to run 275's up front. Whether I go 275 out back or at least a 295, which would be a similar setup to what I have now, but wider all around.

Just my .02.
Thanks for your input, and it was lot good info to keep in mind.
 

BMR Tech 2

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Which upper control arm are you looking at? What rear sway bar?

I would probably skip the H&R springs and do something else instead. They're incredibly low and in my opinion are more for looks than performance. Once you get as low as the H&R, your front and rear geometry get all screwed up and it gets pretty difficult to correct. You will also need to choose what is more important to you, corners or going straight. You can make the car do both "OK", but your spring choice will have a pretty big impact on this.
 

Crazy jok3r

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Which upper control arm are you looking at? What rear sway bar?

I would probably skip the H&R springs and do something else instead. They're incredibly low and in my opinion are more for looks than performance. Once you get as low as the H&R, your front and rear geometry get all screwed up and it gets pretty difficult to correct. You will also need to choose what is more important to you, corners or going straight. You can make the car do both "OK", but your spring choice will have a pretty big impact on this.

I'm looking to go with BMR Adjustable Rear Upper Control Arm - Poly Bushing, with [URL='http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-uca-mount-red-1114.html']BMR Rear Upper Control Arm Mount. For the rear sway bar [URL='http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-adj-rear-swaybar-black-1114.html']BMR Adjustable Rear Sway Bar w/ Fabricated End Links - Hammertone. I'm to build the car for corners, but wouldn't mind taking her out to the 1/4 mile once in a while. What springs would you suggest, and anything else you could suggest?[/URL][/URL]
[URL='http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-uca-mount-red-1114.html'][URL='http://www.americanmuscle.com/bmr-adj-rear-swaybar-black-1114.html'][/URL][/URL]
Thanks.
 

BMR Tech 2

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If you plan to do a lot of track work and corner carving with the car, I would suggest doing the UTCA033 or UTCA038 instead of the poly upper, along with a set of TCA021. The bearing stuff will ultimately work better on the road course than poly will.

The sway bar is a good choice, I just wanted to be sure you weren't looking at our XSB drag bars.

Our handling springs (SP065) would work well with your damper choice, but they will not really work well for 1/4 mile stuff. Alternatively, you could do a softer set like the SP009 and make up for the lower spring rate with the sway bars. The car would still handle decently and be pretty capable at the 1/4 mile.
 

Crazy jok3r

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If you plan to do a lot of track work and corner carving with the car, I would suggest doing the UTCA033 or UTCA038 instead of the poly upper, along with a set of TCA021. The bearing stuff will ultimately work better on the road course than poly will.

The sway bar is a good choice, I just wanted to be sure you weren't looking at our XSB drag bars.

Our handling springs (SP065) would work well with your damper choice, but they will not really work well for 1/4 mile stuff. Alternatively, you could do a softer set like the SP009 and make up for the lower spring rate with the sway bars. The car would still handle decently and be pretty capable at the 1/4 mile.

Thanks for the help.
 

BMR Tech 2

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No problem!

If you want a quote on any of this stuff, just shoot me a PM when you're ready to order and I'll save you as much as I can!
 

imeyers302

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Long Island
Setup I went with for my car is:

Steeda HD strut mounts
Steeda sport springs
Koni Yellows
Steeda F&R Adjustable Sway bars
Steeda billet lower Control Arms
BMR Relocation Brackets
Steeda Upper adj control arm and mount.
Steeda Watts Link
Steeda front G-Trac Trac brace and rear X-Brace

Car tracks around turns likes it's on rails and I am still on stock p-Zeros (for now). No noises whatsoever from any of the parts and fitment was all perfect. People will argue but I will say once again, for the rear of the car there is no better upgrade than the watts link. Very pricey but so worth it. Made the rear finally feel connected to the rest of the car. Ride is slightly on the stiff side but the handling makes it so worth it.
 

hand-filer

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If I ever make the upgrade to a Watts Link it will be the Cortex system.
It's engineering art compared to some of the systems out there.
 

SUPERVENOM03

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Rock Springs GA
I still have a few things left to complete my suspension, but I went with the following parts for a foundation.

Koni yellows for 05-10
GT 500 strut mounts
Steeda BOSS competition springs
The following are all from BMR
LCAs poly/spherical bearing
Relocation brackets
PHB brace
Poly single adjustable PHB.

These parts have transformed the handling of the car. The ride is very close to stock in terms of harshness over normal roads. I cut the rear bumpstops but it can bee a bit harsh on larger bumps. After alignment my camber is -1.4.. No plates needed. It is on rails around corners, wheel hop is gone, and it is more stable over broken pavement.
 

sur_real1

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I re-used my strut mount nut. I've never heard of anyone needing a new one (unless you rounded it off). As far as the LCA's are concerned, I went with what was as parallel with the ground (with the suspension loaded) as possible.

From my blurb above:
Lower control arm adjustment:
This really comes down to your driving style. With the LCA's facing down towards the front and up towards the rear, you'll get more wheel spin when launching and turns may feel tighter, but control may be unpredictable at the limit. With the LCA's facing the opposite direction, launches at the drag strip will be better as the suspension on the rear will be loading up and pushing the car up in the rear and forward. For daily driving, or open track, I have come to understand that the more level the LCA's are, the happier you'll be.
 

Crazy jok3r

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I re-used my strut mount nut. I've never heard of anyone needing a new one (unless you rounded it off). As far as the LCA's are concerned, I went with what was as parallel with the ground (with the suspension loaded) as possible.

From my blurb above:
Lower control arm adjustment:
This really comes down to your driving style. With the LCA's facing down towards the front and up towards the rear, you'll get more wheel spin when launching and turns may feel tighter, but control may be unpredictable at the limit. With the LCA's facing the opposite direction, launches at the drag strip will be better as the suspension on the rear will be loading up and pushing the car up in the rear and forward. For daily driving, or open track, I have come to understand that the more level the LCA's are, the happier you'll be.
Awesome thanks for the help!
 

BMR Tech 2

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Strut mount nuts can be re-used. It wouldn't hurt to use some medium strength loctite on them though.

With our springs, I recommend that the middle hole on the LCA brackets be used.

Enjoy your new BMR stuff!
 

Crazy jok3r

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Strut mount nuts can be re-used. It wouldn't hurt to use some medium strength loctite on them though.

With our springs, I recommend that the middle hole on the LCA brackets be used.

Enjoy your new BMR stuff!

What should my pinion angle be for my UCA adjustable rod end?
 

BMR Tech 2

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What should my pinion angle be for my UCA adjustable rod end?
Depends on how much you are lowered.

0 -> -2 is typically where we like to see people sit.

but if you don't have a vibration at higher speeds (60+) then I wouldn't worry about it.

If you're just installing it then set to stock length, and adjust from there.
 

PaxtonShelby

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image.png
Coil overs will give you much better handling than lowering springs. You can run more spring rate without sacrificing ride quality. I have a Koni yellow coilover setup with Vorshlag CC plates, 450/250 springs f/r, and BMR watts, LCA's, & LCA relo brackets and the handling is incredible compared to the stock track pack setup that my '14 came with. Zero brake dive. Zero wheel hop. Both were nearly unbearable in stock trim. The coilovers are not cheap, but worth it IMO, especially if you plan to keep the car long term.
 

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