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SVT’s Jamal Hameedi Weighs-In With His Opinion of The 2013 GT500 @ The Nürburgring

Discussion in 'Front Page Articles' started by SID297, Nov 25, 2013.

  1. SID297

    SID297 OWNER/ADMIN Staff Member Administrator

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    We certainly seem to have stirred up a bit controversy with our recent article chronicling Nürburgring lap times for a few very potent Pony/Muscle Cars. In one corner we have the 2013 SVT Shelby GT500 Mustang, home of the most powerful production V8 on planet Earth; and in the other we find the Chevy Camaro (in both ZL1 and Z/28 flavors). A couple weeks earlier we posted an exclusive video of the GT500 running a very impressive estimated lap time of just a shade under 7:40, which brings us to the point of contention.

    During our dissection of the Ford footage; we had 100% raw, unedited, footage we used Chevy’s widely publicized Camaro videos as a frame of reference for lap starting and ending points. That’s where things really started to get intriguing. To the naked eye it appears that GM may have been shaving their lap times a bit by fiddling with their timers. Though definitely not conclusive the screenshots in this thread are rather damning:


    http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...-shelby-gt500-mustang-takes-nuerburgring.html


    That brings us to an email exchange I had with Ford's Global Performance Vehicle Chief Engineer Jamal Hameedi. I really just had one simple question, why doesn’t Ford release Nürburgring lap times for the GT500. Jamal’s answer was highly insightful, to say the least. Check out the full exchange below:



    Here's is the reply from Ford's Global Performance Vehicle Chief Engineer:



    So after reading the opinion SVT’s main-man himself, what do you think? Are manufacturer produced Nürburgring lap times actually substantive, or are they just marketing fluff?


    -SID297:beer:
     
  2. SID297

    SID297 OWNER/ADMIN Staff Member Administrator

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    Just for fun, here's a few more screen caps from the vid:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  3. magred

    magred New Member Established Member

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    Well regardless of some of the reasons Jamal stated, Ring times do show the buyer/enthusiast what the car is capable of doing.In fact it almost appears to be a cop out as to why they don't publish Ring times. You don't have to worry what the other manufacturers are doing. You just have to make sure that you are following the rules. In fact, do like some manufacturers do and simply take one off the show room floor and run it.

    In other words, walk the walk so you can talk the talk.
     
  4. Steve@Tasca

    [email protected] Authorized Vendor Authorized Vendor

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    There is virtually no way to set any sort of "official" lap time of the 'Ring, As Jamal stated there are just so many variables from one day to the next and on a track this size it's just unrealistic.

    The only way would be to have the cars all there on the same day to test in the exact same conditions and all the cars would have to be tested and certified.
     
  5. Clipboard

    Clipboard Member Established Member

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    It makes sense...just like testing gains of an intake at a drag strip....da and weather condition can make a huge difference and can negate the effects of the intake change. I would assume this is the similar concept
     
  6. Steve@Tasca

    [email protected] Authorized Vendor Authorized Vendor

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    Yes it is, but then take in to consideration that this is a 14 mile road course through the forest in Europe and not just a 1/4 mile dragstrip and you really begin to understand the scope of trying to set any sort of real standard for record setting there.
     
  7. kevinatfms

    kevinatfms Ex-Ford/Kia/Hyundai Tech Premium Member Established Member

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    He is the man. Good explanation for the no BS approach. He would rather focus on building a better car than setting a time that could be manipulated with a plethora of factors. Hope the next SVT mustang is the same way.
     
  8. ITRIEDEL

    ITRIEDEL Active Member Established Member

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    Good response. I still wish they would have just told us. Lol.

    I feel the nurburgring is an honor system anyway. If the car manufacture lies, then so be it... in time it will surface by the big car reviewers. Just get out there, run it like it does off the show room floor and report it; you were already there!

    I'm sure from a marketing standpoint, i'm retarded, but i'm a greedy retard.
     
  9. Dizzyscure1

    Dizzyscure1 New Member Established Member

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    There is no honor in the dollar and this is all about the dollar.
     
  10. DBK

    DBK Re-retired Established Member

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    Clearly you missed the entire point of what he said.

    There are no rules.

    Manufacturers do not take a car off the showroom floor and run it.

    There is no sanctioning body to prove it if they claim that they did.
     
  11. USNjocson

    USNjocson CORPSMAN UP! Established Member

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    +1 unfortunately
     
  12. QUIKAG

    QUIKAG New Member Established Member

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    I wish the chief of SVT wouldn't use "lol" in an email. I know an email is fairly informal, but sheesh....

    Okay, Rings times aren't standardized, but they are still a gauge for overall performance. I do wish Ford would post their Ring times. The fact that Ford and even most Porsche models don't post official ring times is pretty telling IMHO. I love that GM is such a big Ring time company. Since I do road course driving with my ZR1, I love knowing my ZR1 can run a sub 7:20 at the Ring with a damn good driver. It gives me a warm fuzzy and helps me sleep well at night just like Jamal sleeps well knowing his GT500 is selling well even if it's slower on the road course than a ZL1 with nearly 100 less horsepower.

    BTW, I love the GT500. I love they can release a 650+ real world horsepower car for less than $70k.

    Finally, hope this doesn't piss too many people off, but I think that GT500 track video is NOT on a stock GT500. As the GT500 overheats it's brakes within a few laps on a normal track, I think at a bare minimum this car has DOT 4 brake fluid, brake ducting, and good track pads. Not that the aforementioned is a big deal and it's very smart insurance so they don't kill any of their Ford test drivers, but it's not stock.
     
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2013
  13. mgmustang1

    mgmustang1 Active Member Established Member

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    Is it an embarrassment to post what the 13/14 gt500 can do? We all know it was built for more of a straight line but just throw a number out there let us know. It would not hurt sales as you can see.

    Of course Chevy has to race it on the turns because they are embarrassed by there quarter times.
     
  14. 95PGTTech

    95PGTTech Active Member Established Member

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    I totally agree with him. With some minor video editing, it would be very easy to slap some race gas, a pulley, and a kill tune on an otherwise stock car. While you're at it, some R compound tires and racing brakes and $5000 Penske race-valved shocks. Go run 45 seconds faster than the stock car and 15 seconds faster than your rival and post it online as a stock GT500 Ring lap time. Then when no one can duplicate this time, claim driver mod.

    I appreciate that someone takes the time to do some video while they are there testing anyway for their own purposes, that's all I need. Not a single customer ever is going to buy a GT500 for the sole purpose of racing it around the Ring, so it's an irrelevant bar. I just like to see the car in action while they have it there anyway.
     
  15. RedFox

    RedFox Member Established Member

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    If you can't compete, you come out with a well thought out spin to not post the numbers. If lap times were spectacular, they would be used everywhere by Ford's marketing department.

    He is buying time until the new chassis is available. This is a terrific motor in search of a modern chassis and thankfully it's coming.
     
  16. 72MachOne99GT

    72MachOne99GT Well-Known Member Established Member

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    Garbage chassis runs times highly competitive to the godlike zl1, times arent made official.

    what is the big deal?


    We've already seen that Ford has nothing to gain by posting times.
    If it's faster the excuse is well duh, it has an unfair power advantage.

    If it is close it is an embarrassment considering it has a huge HP advantage.

    If it loses it is pathetic a car with so much more HP loses.

    Can't please everyone.
     
  17. blacksheep-1

    blacksheep-1 Active Member Established Member

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    Buy 2 cars off the showroom floor, (under anonymous names) ship them to the "Ring, put the same fuel in them then let John Heinricy drive both cars and we'll find out
     
  18. Ninjak

    Ninjak Posting from The Shadow's Established Member

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    This x1.

    We have already seen the GT500 keep up and beat the ZL1 on road courses. From magazines, and real drivers. We also know its no contest in the 1/4 dept. So Ford not using the "ring" to hype the car is fine by me. Really.....who the hell is going to the ring besides military members or people who actually live in Germany ? I would like to know ONE person who have actually shipped their ZL1 or GT500 to Germany to run it on the ring and come back home....
     
  19. Mike L.

    Mike L. Member Established Member

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    So I take it Ford never lies or cheats? I recall a big horsepower lie when I bought my '99 Cobra. Ford denied it then they got busted.
    I love both cars and would choose the GT500 over the ZL1 in a second. I don't believe the GT500 can hang with the ZL1 on a road course period.
     
  20. NoVA_Mike

    NoVA_Mike Member Established Member

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    Well I can name one who did and never posted a time... [Cough... Ahem]

    Even if they spiked the punch and ran a time at least they'd have done it. The only reason not to is that they're afraid of the numbers. If anyone has ever lifted for any length of time, you know that sometimes guys will call out other guys to a friendly challenge. And when a guy keeps giving excuses and turning down the challenge people start thinking something's up and giving the side-eye-squint, "mmm hmm."

    Not posting a time, huh.

    mmm hmmm.

    Not saying it has to be the KING of the Ring either. Basically, the thing is to post a respectable time. The only reason not to is because you're afraid that the time won't even be respectable. And that it's so far behind (even after juicing the car) that you can't explain away the slower time. R&T blasted the GT500 for its brakes. Ford talks about how the car runs with the big boys and can break 200mph, but won't post a ring time...

    mmmmmm hmmm...

    Just sayin' what some people are thinking, that's all. I love the car, but I really think they should run it just to shut people like me up.
     

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