SVT’s Jamal Hameedi Weighs-In With His Opinion of The 2013 GT500 @ The Nürburgring

[speednutz]

Oh Man ! I want a refund on my GT500 ! Just the thought of not having any "Ring Times" makes me so ill !! LMAO
Most of the people I hang with could really care less about the "Ring Times" anyway.
All most people care about is HP, 1/4mile times and top speed in a straight line.
He's right and I agree with what he said. :rockon:

 

[C0bra99]

Yep a lot of peoples reading comprehension is lacking is this thread.
To some not posting a time means you have a **** time - I call BS
Posting a time it has to be modified - I also call BS

Doesn’t matter what they do people will always have a reason to knock it (Ever think why?)

Why do you think SVT doesn't release times? Since there are so many factors (Driver, Temp, Mods etc...) that you can never do a fair comparison. There are no rules to make sure it's fair... It's all BS

Again this speaks volumes
“Actually we spent a lot of time trying to figure out how to make more GT500s due to high demand. I've seen other performance cars with published Ring times being offered with incentives and cash on the hood”

 

[Got-Cobra?]

I don't see a problem with anything he said and agree. :beer:

I do think it would be cool to have a time but it's not going to change the buying opinion of anyone that is currently "purchasing" the GT500 so why waste the money.

Most people doing those kind of track days don't typically buy a GT500. Maybe a handful that do out of how many cars built?

With that in mind, all the keyboard racers that want a time "Go get on XBOX and see who can post the FASTEST RING time with a STOCK '13 GT500!"

Then see who can post the fastest stock time in ______ and compare! :lol:

 

[Turkey_Lurker03]

Ford doesn't have to worry, new Camaro looks a a bubble like the rest of the new cars ... Doubt most people who would spent over 60k for a street car would race it or care about a track time in another county that no one would ever get the pleasure experiencing

 

[dubbsfaris]

I would like to know ONE person who have actually shipped their ZL1 or GT500 to Germany to run it on the ring and come back home....

Ever heard of Shelby run Europe? 20 American Shelby and Ford GT owners did just that, and 2015 and 2016 we are doing it all over again with many more cars this time.

At any rate- back to the topic at hand, Jamaal is right. ford doesn't need the numbers to sell their car. On the other hand, how expensive would it be to allow a third party take possession of a showroom car at a dealer from Ford, Chevy and send them over? Since we have done that, I can tell you it is less than 10k to ship 2 cars there and back, and add in the cost of the cars, the bill for Ford and Chevy would be less than 100k each...that's not that much money. But both companies have more to lose than gain. That's the real answer why its not done.

Want more proof? Top Gear had a 2013 GT500 that Jeremy Clarkson drove across Europe and bitched about the whole way. You all remember its lap time when the stig drove it on their track, right? Yeah, they didnt.

I've seen every single episode they have ever done, and that was the first time a showcased vehicle was not given a lap time for the board. Am I the only to notice that? I bet not.:read:

 

[thePill]

Nurburgring lap times are purely marketing fluff. I do agree it is a great platform for testing during industry pools but, to build a vehicle marketing plan solely around Ring times is weak. Yes it is a challenge, I myself run out of nerve above 110mph at that track... Driver is a huge, unpredictable variable. Marketing fluff indeed and this is where Chevy fits in.

I must admit, I have never seen, heard or even suspected Team Corvette of shaving lap times (or cheating period), so why Team Camaro?

I knew the '13 mules were fast but, like Jamal said.

In order for us to set an "official" time corner weights would have to be taken, calibration checksums need to be verified, engine power verified via chassis rolls, a hoist inspection, and probably a fuel sample taken by an independent 3rd party like a governing/sanctioning body.

I don't think I need to remind anyone here what kind of equipment the '13 mules and the 7:39 GT500 had while testing. I seen a roll bar/cage, special drilled/slotted rotors on the "Red" mule and winglets. All it takes is one person to cry fowl after an official lap and the GT500's run is erased from the recordbooks. Why advertise that? The GT500 doesn't come with a factory roll cage/bar... period... Nor does the Z twins and I'm sure there was more done if they are brave enough to cheat and release the video. Chevy's equipment is far more accurate than your timing method Travis, even though it failed to start/stop at the correct time.

If Ford/SVT wants to hold Ring times for those reasons, I'm sure I will survive. Besides, how can you compete with a cheater? You have to cheat yourself and I'm not standing behind a company that does so. Chevy must have spent a lot of cash on Ring R&D and for what? So a solid axle Mustang can repeat your advertised time? Embarrasing...

I tried to communicate the unofficial time before, Jamal told Pistonhead.com the '13's were "Deep in the Sevens" http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/pics-videos-buffet-149/810741-deep-7s-gt500-ring.html... I knew it sounded crazy, at the time, a sub 8 minute lap was fast... It was funny to them... they got a laugh I'm sure...

...Who's laughing now????

On the Camaro side, not only did you catch them shaving time, I caught them sandbagging the GT500 during the Milford media tour. I'm glad they got busted red handed, for one, you don't see anyone talking about the z28 or the Ring anymore. They would rather come back at the person making the post then face the content of the post itself.

They initially marketed the z28 as a track car for racing (yes, they specifically said racing) but never made an attempt to develop the z28 to conform to any rulebooks. The whole fanbase was "Ready to Race". Does it really hurt to be honest with potential customers? After that sunk in, the few left standing attacked me as if I developed the z28 like this.

This is EXACTLY why Ford shouldn't advertise Ring times... It is decieving, expensive and even potentially damaging to their reputation. Cheating is probably common too, nobody inspects anything and nobody could ever get access to a full lap to prove them wrong. Even the 200mph claim almost came back to bite them in the ass... One magazine ran a 196mph, even stated that "200 can be done" and it was deemed BS marketing...The GT500's brakes fade once during a comparison and now, ALL GT500's have brake fade. Nevermind that the ZL1 runs 12.5's in the 1/4, who cares if both Ring times were shaved, No heastsoak what-so-ever, even though a Chiller is mod #1, The 1LE advertised as "faster than a Boss" but can't manage the Coyote GT in SCCA T2. The only place Chevy sanctioned it was T2 then they complained when Ford sent them a GT. Your dumbasses sanctioned it in a GT class, sanction it in T1 then..

They want the 7:39 GT500's specs... ugggg... So Ford needs a detailed printout of the equipment list to run the Ring (during development)? That is why Ford was there... However, the two GT500's in the Spring '13 video were actual 2013 GT500's. Not mules like I had seen. If Ford wants to release raw video after the fact (far after the fact) for fans to come to their own conclusions... I think that is appropriate.

It also says a lot about a company when they sit on details that would completely undermine the competitions product. The whole time Ford never said a word and let Chevy market however they wanted... It wasn't till the Milford Media Tour and "The Boss 302LS is faster than the '13 GT500" statement that I think Ford flipped a lid.

It's very hard to take Team Camaro seriously... Chevy, Team Corvette... sure... Not Team Camaro, not after all this playin' dirty. In fact, it is an infraction against all American auto makers. I'll bet some other runs are being looked at closer now.

 

[Steve@Tasca]

Take a look at the Motor Trend 2013 Lightning Lap article, everything they do is spelled out and as even as possible.

On the shorter, tighter VIR circuit the ZL1 beat the GT-500 by 2.5 seconds. I don't see any reason why the GT-500 wouldn't beat the ZL1 at the 'Ring where it has a lot more chance to really put it's power advantage to good use.

Last page with lap times, Lightning Lap 2013: Hot Cars, Hot Track, Hot Laps - - Car and Driver


-Steve

 

[Franz]

Even though I didn't buy my GT500 for running around a track, I would personally like to see a formal Ring time for the car. So what if there isn't a worldwide "standard" for how the testing is done. Run the lap, record the time, and post the video. If one manufacturer thinks that Ford is full of it, let them run a GT500 against their car and prove otherwise. Or, call them out and host a race with a third party checking each car right before the runs. Certainly it's not that difficult.

 

[Expurple]

The key word here is " Inspection ".
I don't take Nürgburgring times as standard because, I'm sure any manufacturer can take slick/soft compound tires and shape them up to look like stock ones, crank up the boost or use different fuel

The whole " ring time " ordeal was started by Nissan to promote their car and I seriously doubt their production vehicles can match the ones used at the ring.

All in all the GT-500 is an INCREDIBLE car and many couldn't care less about it's " ring. time "

 

[Tex Arcana]

That is true, it is speculation. I would also speculate ANY GM car that has been run at the very ring has AT LEAST Dot 4 brake fluid as a "mod." Why do I suspect that?

Well, I boiled the crap Dot 3 brake fluid in less than 10 minutes tracking my bone stock CTS-V at a local road course and almost wrecked. Went off track and had to throw it into a slide in the grass/dirt to keep from hitting the tire wall. The stock brake fluid just won't hold up when tracking your car for pretty much any car on the market if you're pushing hard.

Again, as others have mentioned or alluded to, Ford would be marketing the crap out of Ring times if they had a good time to market. The poster above who said the GT500 is an incredible engine in search of a proper chassis is spot on 100% IMHO.

Huh, interesting, when I ran my bone-stock 2001 Lightning at Motorsport Ranch/Cresson on the stock Goodyear F1s, my brake fluid held up just fine, and I was hitting 110-115 on the back straight into the Rattlesnake... oke:

 

[usmotox]

Thanks for sharing the reply, very good read and I like his take on this

 

[mrlrd1]

If the car was quicker than the GM offering, there is no doubt he would be boasting it from atop any hill he could find, like he did with the power numbers. While it's quicker in the straights due to the power, the chassis and the car as a whole isn't as capable (and thus, not as fast on that track) as the 5th gen and he knows it. His reply wasn't eloquent, it was a damn cop out!

 

[conceptmachine]

Whats sad is that even with a SRS the GT500 can keep up and even beat the ZL1. Just think what it would do with IRS...LOL. But, in reality, in everday road use where these cars will perform everyday, the GT500 destroys the ZL1.

 

[iamtheshaner]

Got about halfway through page two before I couldn't stand it any longer...

Understand this first: Ford is in the business of selling cars. All the marketing hype, internet speculation and customer perception in the world is worth ABSOLUTELY NOTHING if they don't sell the cars they make. That being said, it's ABSOLUTELY WORTHLESS to spend $ marketing a vehicle which has higher demand than supply. It's a waste of money - pure and simple. If people would buy every single GT500 Ford produces in a year regardless of how it competes with the ZL1 - where is the value added proving that people should buy it instead of a ZL1? It does nothing but appease the fanboys and brand loyal bench racers. And we all know they won't agree on anything regardless of facts.

LOL @ the DOT 4 brake fluid comment. He's apparently not aware that Motocraft DOT 3 has a higher boiling point than DOT 4.

If the car was quicker than the GM offering, there is no doubt he would be boasting it from atop any hill he could find, like he did with the power numbers. While it's quicker in the straights due to the power, the chassis and the car as a whole isn't as capable (and thus, not as fast on that track) as the 5th gen and he knows it. His reply wasn't eloquent, it was a damn cop out!

So, if there is no oversight to the ring test and their objective is to obtain proof that the GT500 is faster around the ring than the ZL1 - why didn't Ford just mod the car until it ran a faster time?
Is it really that impossible to imagine engineers of a vehicle which cannot be produced in numbers equal to demand are more concerned with R&D in a very expensive, time-limited possession of the track? Wait, nevermind..... GM obviously doesn't have a track record of efficient use of capital.....

 

[2Rare]

So wait, if the RS team and the SVT team have been talking, does that mean we can expect an AWD Mustang in the future?

Wouldn't that be nice for a change?

 

[QUIKAG]

Huh, interesting, when I ran my bone-stock 2001 Lightning at Motorsport Ranch/Cresson on the stock Goodyear F1s, my brake fluid held up just fine, and I was hitting 110-115 on the back straight into the Rattlesnake... oke:

You weren't driving hard enough. Period.

 

[mrlrd1]

So, if there is no oversight to the ring test and their objective is to obtain proof that the GT500 is faster around the ring than the ZL1 - why didn't Ford just mod the car until it ran a faster time?
Is it really that impossible to imagine engineers of a vehicle which cannot be produced in numbers equal to demand are more concerned with R&D in a very expensive, time-limited possession of the track? Wait, nevermind..... GM obviously doesn't have a track record of efficient use of capital.....

Modify the car to beat the ZL1? Think about that...:bored:

 

[QUIKAG]

LOL @ the DOT 4 brake fluid comment. He's apparently not aware that Motocraft DOT 3 has a higher boiling point than DOT 4.

Oh really? I'm talking Motul and SRF, not the crappiest Dot 4 on the market.

 

[oooooh snap]

I wish the chief of SVT wouldn't use "lol" in an email. I know an email is fairly informal, but sheesh....

Personally, I liked that. Shows he's actually more of a "down to earth" type dude.

 

[hand-filer]

I wish the chief of SVT wouldn't use "lol" in an email. I know an email is fairly informal, but sheesh....

Why? Oh right I forgot you vette' owners are a lot older than most of us. lol