SVT’s Jamal Hameedi Weighs-In With His Opinion of The 2013 GT500 @ The Nürburgring

[Tex Arcana]

Okay, I've been to MSR over a hundred times and unless you had a lot of traffic with no way to sustain higher average speeds, your stock fluid would have boiled. Sounds like you were at a Ford dealership sponsored event with a bunch of newbie hacks so invariably you had plenty of time to cool your brakes between your bonsai big bend into ricochet triple digit runs. LOL (in honor of Jamal).

I'm done talking about a fricking Ford truck at MSR and how it's a superior track weapon to a 2012 CTS-V. LOL.

I'm sorry, did I say that my truck was "superior" in any way to your Cadillac? :bash: no, I did not, you moron.

Now, back to the real world: I have no idea what you do when you drive; for all I know you rent the track to yourself and have at it. But if you're like most "newbie hacks" (which I suspect you are, since you're taking a LUXURY CAR and trying to turn it into a track bomber), you overdrove your brakes and cooked them; and, being the ignorant azz that you are, you continued doing so, and so decided to blame the "inferior stock DOT3 fluid" (ok, makes sense, since GM likes to cut a lot of corners so they have plenty of bribe money to use), instead of the nut behind the wheel.

My fluid didn't boil because: 1) I had a fresh fluid change in it before the track day; 2) I also had fresh pads--yes, stock, because this was my baseline run, which includes the tires; 3) because I fvkking FOLLOWED INSTRUCTIONS when it came to driving and the cool-off period. Therefore, I went three full sessions LEARNING how to drive my performance vehicle; and I daresay I learned it pretty well.

Obviously, you carry a lot of hate for Ford products and the people who like them, which leads me to wonder why the fvkk you even bother sticking your unwelcomed and rather GM-sh!t-covered nose in here. Go back to the Gumballisti forums, and stick to their circle jerks--maybe y'all can convince yourselves that you're "fair and balanced" while you're deleting threads that challenge your self-delusional superiority.

 

[Tex Arcana]

The answer and reasons are a total joke.

List the driver and stats about the car(fuel, oil, tires and pressure, brakes/fluids, curb weight) as well as track conditions and weather. That will give a complete picture. We all know what temperature does to hp numbers.

Its a put up or shut up track. Ford has no business stating they ran the track until an official time is posted. It was difficult to read that article and the excuses. And I'm a huge performance mustang guy. Post it up!!!

:dw: He can state what he wants, and there's nothing anyone can do about it.

He didn't have to release that vid; but he did, and all it's doing if generating ALOT of positive reactions for the car. It's fairly obvious it's a production mule, it's fairly obvious that they use the 'ring for the stated purpose; so why are those reasons a "total joke"??

Since you're not writing the checks, since you're not the multi-billion-dollar-company that has a HUGE investment in both it's street AND racing divisions, I think what you think is utterly irrelevant to the discussion.

BTW: nice car, did you find that on a Google search?op:

 

[Tex Arcana]

IIRC, GM has stated in their Ring runs (the Z06/Z07 and ZR1 specifically), they have telemetry, race seat/harnesses (for safety), and brake fluid. The car is otherwise 100% stock down to the alignment, tires, etc. I'm guessing the same info could be located for the ZL1 and Z/28. GM doesn't need to hide anything on their runs. It is what it is. Some cars are faster and many are slower.

Put up or shut up.:burn:

GM is proud of their chassis, suspension, brakes, performance traction management, and powertrain integration. GM worked hard on that and they are happy with their product.

They should be, Holden did a helluva job developing that car for them.:bs:

Ford took an inferior platform and put an absolute top-of-the-line monster engine in the new GT500. I can see the appeal of that, but what kills me is Ford didn't even integrate brake ducting into the GT500. That's pretty sad IMHO. Then again, I'm a road course guy, so that kind of stuff is important to me (ala ZR1). For 99% of the guys/gals? who buy a GT500, they couldn't give one and a half craps about anything besides that monster engine. I, too, understand the appeal of that.

Really?? Then why so much hate over the fact that car smacked down the ZL1? And why GM had to rush the z/28 to market in a pretty lame attempt to compete? Or why GM has to offer rebates and blow jobs to sell the cars?

Yes, I agree with the platform statement: I've been saying for awhile the platform is a freaking old rebuilt SN95 stamping. It's better than the old one, but it's still old tech. And it should have an IRS. OTOH, the three-link is FAR better than the old four link ever was. And this vid helps prove it.

Honestly for beating around town as a fun daily driver, I'd probably get the GT500 over the ZL1 myself and I own two factory supercharged GM V8 cars. Then again, I'd just get the CTS-V for similiar money and have a better overall, albeit slightly slower, daily driver car which is what I did, I guess.

So, you WOULDN'T buy a Ford for any reason, is that what you're saying?? What did Ford do to you to make you hate them so much? :nonono:

 

[Tex Arcana]

Actually the plenum had to be replaced along with a less restrictive catback and the computer had to be retuned to lean it down.
We the owners were told by SVT that we wouldn't know 320 hp if it bit us in the ass. :rollseyes After a bunch of owners had Rousch dyno their Cobra's at an average of 250 rwh, Ford had to listen. Up until that time they blew us off.

Yep, and when the dust settled, they had a MANDATORY recall that sent about half of those cars into secret storage, never to see a Ford dealership again; and the other half ended up costing Ford so much they couldn't product the next year's Cobra--and, it led to Ford's policy of understating their horsepower outputs so they would never get bit by this again.

For this alone I salute you guys for blazing the trail for the rest of us.:beer:

 

[Tex Arcana]

I call horse crap. Ford won't publish times because its embarrassed about getting its ass handed to it by Chevy in the form of the zl1.
The GT500 was made for dyno queens and bench racers where as the zl1, 1le, z28 and Boss were made for hitting apexes.

We will do you a favor and not delete your post. Now go crawling back to your GumballMoron forums and stick to your little circlejerking, mkay?

 

[QUIKAG]

I owned a '99 Cobra and I buy over a dozen Ford trucks a year (half-ton and 3/4) ton at the company where I work. I have discretion to buy any brand I want and I choose the Ford most of the time though I do prefer the duramax for our diesel buys. Still feeling burned on the 6.0 diesel fiasco.

Glad you had fun at a Ford dealership sponsored track day, but I run time trial and advanced track days and have for a decade. My mistake was thinking I could take my V out for a few sessions at an informal and not push it hard enough to cook the brake fluid and trash the pads. I did both on the first session. Guess I driver harder than most.

I also have the fastest lap times at MSR and ECR for a street legal car, so I'm not exactly a newbie. Check quikagc5 on YouTube if you don't believe me and ask around.

I only say the above because I know more than most non-pros about road course performance. You, on the other hand, drove a Ford Lightning at a Five Star Ford track day with a bunch of hacks and now think you are God's gift to driving. Uh huh.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

We will do you a favor and not delete your post. Now go crawling back to your GumballMoron forums and stick to your little circlejerking, mkay?

I'm sorry, did my comment offend you? I forget this forum is filled with flag waving pansies who can't take a dose of reality. Please go ahead and delete my comment, its already been quoted twice.
The GT500 sucks at handling, it can't put its power down, its overweight and for track use its under-braked.
You can go back to waving that GT500 flag now...right below the Bowtie flag, because until Ford can figure out how to put the power down on corner exit, that's where it will be, behind the Camaro

 

[BlackBolt9]

Okay, I've been to MSR over a hundred times and unless you had a lot of traffic with no way to sustain higher average speeds, your stock fluid would have boiled. Sounds like you were at a Ford dealership sponsored event with a bunch of newbie hacks so invariably you had plenty of time to cool your brakes between your bonsai big bend into ricochet triple digit runs. LOL (in honor of Jamal).

I'm done talking about a fricking Ford truck at MSR and how it's a superior track weapon to a 2012 CTS-V. LOL.

Just because you have track time doesn't mean you have any idea what you are talking about.

DOT3 vs. DOT4 isn't what makes the difference in boiling your fluid. It's the dry boiling point for fresh new fluid that hasn't absorbed any water from the air yet and the wet boiling point for old fluid that has sat around awhile and absorbed water from the air, you know since brake fluid is hyrdoscopic and all. Motorcraft brake fluid used to have a dry boiling point of 550 back until about 2008 or so. Then they cheapened it up to only 500. The highest temp fluid Motul offers is 617 for reference.

I know this because I searched around for the highest temp fluid for the best price back when I open tracked my "fricken truck" in the 2004-6 timeframe. Guess what, there are a handfull of "fricken trucks" around the country that will hand your CTS-V it's ass. You might not like to think so, but ask some guys from PCA about the big red truck that used to terrorize them (not mine BTW). There are plenty of guys that will tell you just how well a Lightning will make it's way around a road course.

Boiling the fluid usually wasn't the problem. Overheating brake pads was. It's tough to find decent track pads for the F150 (go figure) and so the lining would melt way before you did any damage to the fluid, especially since Motorcraft fluid was WAY better than the majority of brake fluids out there.

You obviously don't know nearly as much as you'd like to think you do.

IIRC, GM has stated in their Ring runs (the Z06/Z07 and ZR1 specifically), they have telemetry, race seat/harnesses (for safety), and brake fluid. The car is otherwise 100% stock down to the alignment, tires, etc. I'm guessing the same info could be located for the ZL1 and Z/28. GM doesn't need to hide anything on their runs. It is what it is. Some cars are faster and many are slower.

GM is proud of their chassis, suspension, brakes, performance traction management, and powertrain integration. GM worked hard on that and they are happy with their product.

GM was hoping it would sell them more cars. Plain and simple. For some reason Ford thinks that 202mph at Nardo will sell cars but a 'Ring time won't. I agree it's bullshit and if Ford had a better time they would post it, which makes it really suspect that they won't. If I had to place stakes in Vegas, I'd bet on the Camaro as well.

Ford took an inferior platform and put an absolute top-of-the-line monster engine in the new GT500. I can see the appeal of that, but what kills me is Ford didn't even integrate brake ducting into the GT500. That's pretty sad IMHO. Then again, I'm a road course guy, so that kind of stuff is important to me (ala ZR1). For 99% of the guys/gals? who buy a GT500, they couldn't give one and a half craps about anything besides that monster engine. I, too, understand the appeal of that.

Inferior platform? How many Camaros have won a championship in Grand Am? ZERO How many S197 Mustangs? THREE

Granted the S197 has been out for several more years but it won it's first championship the first year it rolled out in 2005, and the last time in 2009.

How many championships have been won in American Iron by the new Camaro? ZERO The Mustang has won every year since the new Camaro came out.

Honestly for beating around town as a fun daily driver, I'd probably get the GT500 over the ZL1 myself and I own two factory supercharged GM V8 cars. Then again, I'd just get the CTS-V for similiar money and have a better overall, albeit slightly slower, daily driver car which is what I did, I guess.

Can't argue that too much, but I think if I really had the choice my daily driver would be a G8 GXP, too bad they are getting pretty hard to find. It's too bad GM isn't producing something similar in it's place.

 

[BlackBolt9]

I'm sorry, did my comment offend you? I forget this forum is filled with flag waving pansies who can't take a dose of reality. Please go ahead and delete my comment, its already been quoted twice.

HA!

The GT500 sucks at handling, it can't put its power down, its overweight and for track use its under-braked.

The only reason a Camaro puts down power better is because it has wider, stickier tires. Not because it's some god of suspension design.

As for under-braked, you do realise the new GT500 has 15" six piston Brembos up front and 14" rear brakes right? Hmmm, not much different than your Camaro afterall, and the GT500 is a touch lighter...

You can go back to waving that GT500 flag now...right below the Bowtie flag, because until Ford can figure out how to put the power down on corner exit, that's where it will be, behind the Camaro

It's easy to figure out how to put power down, better tires. DONE.

 

[QUIKAG]

When you are pushing brake fluid to its limits there is a big difference between 500 and 600 boiling point nd wet boiling point is the only thing that matters after a few hard track sessions. Dry BP is worthless. I was boiling Motul in my ZR1 and had to go SRF which has held up great. I know a little more than you may think, Blackbolt. Read my post above.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

HA!



The only reason a Camaro puts down power better is because it has wider, stickier tires. Not because it's some god of suspension design.

As for under-braked, you do realise the new GT500 has 15" six piston Brembos up front and 14" rear brakes right? Hmmm, not much different than your Camaro afterall, and the GT500 is a touch lighter...



It's easy to figure out how to put power down, better tires. DONE.

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Both the zl1 and gt500 come equipped with Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar G:2 tires. The zl1 being heavier (and also over weight) has 305 sized rear tires where the gt500 has 285.
It has everything to do with suspension, EVERYTHING. The shocks on the zl1 are so superior to the gt500 shocks, its embarrassing to talk about. The heavier zl1 is able to put power down and maintain a higher minimum corner speed because it has a better suspension.
As far as brakes, you're one who thinks just changing to a BBK will make you stop better. I don't care how big the brakes are, if you have shitty pads, your large rotors and 6-piston calipers won't be much of a help.
Oh, and I don't have a Camaro, I own a 13 Boss LS.....oops. You can remove your foot from your mouth now

 

[BlackBolt9]

When you are pushing brake fluid to its limits there is a big difference between 500 and 600 boiling point nd wet boiling point is the only thing that matters after a few hard track sessions. Dry BP is worthless. I was boiling Motul in my ZR1 and had to go SRF which has held up great. I know a little more than you may think, Blackbolt. Read my post above.

No, if you think dry boiling point means nothing, you don't know more than I think. As long as you bleed your brakes every time you head to the track wet boiling point isn't important. You should do some more reading and learning instead of running your mouth. I guarantee I know more than you think I do.

From this first link in a google search:

THINGS TO REMEMBER
Brake fluids dry boiling point is more important then wet boiling point when used in a racing brake system.

Try again cupcake.

 

[QUIKAG]

Okay, whatever. In the real world for people that actually push their cars on the track and aren't just poseurs, we care more about wet boiling point. I guess if you want to flush after every track session or two, go for a high dry BP, the rest of us will go with high wet BP and enjoy our track days more. Or do like I did and buy SRF and never look back. See you at the track and make sure you have your big boy pants on.

 

[BlackBolt9]

You really have no idea what you're talking about. Both the zl1 and gt500 come equipped with Goodyear Eagle F1 Supercar G:2 tires. The zl1 being heavier (and also over weight) has 305 sized rear tires where the gt500 has 285.

Not the same tire:

2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
I called our friend Woody Rogers at Tire Rack to investigate. The first thing to realize: The tires on the GT500 are P-metric and the ZL1's are Euro-metric. This means the tires are dimensionally similar, but each is made to a different set of design constraints. Rogers reported that the construction of both tires appears to be the same, but that the GT500's rear tire is 2.05 lb. lighter than the ZL1's front tire, and has a lighter load rating. What's more, while the Camaro's tires are marked as ZL1-specific, nothing on the GT500 designates its rubber as unique to Ford. However, SVT says it worked with Goodyear to improve braking power in front and side bite in the rear. Its 285/35ZR-20s, for the record, are the largest tires that will fit the rear of a GT500.

Read more: 2012 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1 - Road & Track

It has everything to do with suspension, EVERYTHING. The shocks on the zl1 are so superior to the gt500 shocks, its embarrassing to talk about. The heavier zl1 is able to put power down and maintain a higher minimum corner speed because it has a better suspension.

I believe the Camaro can put power down, but where have you seen the data traces that show minimum corner speeds?

As far as brakes, you're one who thinks just changing to a BBK will make you stop better. I don't care how big the brakes are, if you have shitty pads, your large rotors and 6-piston calipers won't be much of a help.

Where did I say that? Big brakes won't stop you any faster if you don't have enough tire to create the braking force. It'll just create more lockup. Any brake pad will work for at least one or two corners before it get too hot and won't work properly. You obviously don't know how brakes work either.

Oh, and I don't have a Camaro, I own a 13 Boss LS.....oops. You can remove your foot from your mouth now

Good for you. Glad you bought a great car. My foot has never been in my mouth. Thank you for the concern though.

 

[chuckstang]

So I take it Ford never lies or cheats? I recall a big horsepower lie when I bought my '99 Cobra. Ford denied it then they got busted.
I love both cars and would choose the GT500 over the ZL1 in a second. I don't believe the GT500 can hang with the ZL1 on a road course period.

Ford never lied ding bat, there was an issue with the intake manifold and once that got fixed it made the advertised 320 hp and then some.

 

[BlackBolt9]

Okay, whatever. In the real world for people that actually push their cars on the track and aren't just poseurs, we care more about wet boiling point. I guess if you want to flush after every track session or two, go for a high dry BP, the rest of us will go with high wet BP and enjoy our track days more. Or do like I did and buy SRF and never look back. See you at the track and make sure you have your big boy pants on.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

In the real world, where people actually race their cars instead of doing touring laps, we do bleed fluid at least once a weekend. So I'll stick to my dry boiling point, like every other person who knows what they are doing.

http://www.castrol.com/liveassets/b...STAGING/local_assets/downloads/s/SRF_B768.pdf

Dry boiling point: 310C = 590F
Wet boiling point: 270C = 518F

Whoppity do.

What I've put into REAL race cars.

http://www.brembo.com/en/car/Racing/Street-products/Documents/USA CATALOGO.pdf

Dry boiling point: 316C = 601F
Wet boiling point: 204C = 399F

It's been good for a few championships, but it's no SRF :rollseyes

I don't need the big boy pants, thanks :kaboom:

 

[QUIKAG]

Hey enjoy your powder puff championship rings. When you are making real speed around the track, you'll want SRF.

Have a good one.

 

[BlackBolt9]

Hey enjoy your powder puff championship rings. When you are making real speed around the track, you'll want SRF.

Have a good one.

Yeah ok.

I was jackman and a mechanic on the Mustang that won the 2009 Grand Am Koni Challenge Championship.

Go ahead, keep talking about how awesome you are. You still have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[QUIKAG]

No, I'm just making WAY more speed than that Mustang, WAY more. SRF is the best fluid and it's used by real race teams for a reason. I'm sure that Brembo fluid works great on a slow Mustang, but it won't hold up in a fast car.

 

[silentbutdeadly]

Time charts of time spent through certain sectors at VIR
Lightning Lap 2013: Hot Cars, Hot Track, Hot Laps - - Car and Driver

Congrats you quoted an article. They are still the same tire no matter how you chop it.

I know plenty about braking. Clearly more than you. And everything you say further proves how bad the brakes are compared to the Camaro.

What's the matter, gave up on the suspension argument? I suggest you give up all together. Your dyno queen got it's ass handed to it at a REAL race track. Until Ford gives the gt500 or Boss a proper suspension, they'll be behing the camaro at most every road course