T56 magnum grinding

[04cobrawhine]

So just got my magnum and centerforce dyad in and when I go to shift quickly from 1-2, it grinds a little. I know the magnum syncros are fragil and I don't want to drive it like this. If I go to shift slow its ok. From 2-3 quickly sometimes a very slight grind, and never from 3-4 and up. I have the TOB just bairly off the PP. I won't wanna adjust the clutch tighter and have the TOB riding on the PP the whole time. Also running mobile 1 synthetic ATF.

Thanks

 

[speedfreak94]

When you say that you "just got" your clutch and trans, does that mean that the setup is all new?

 

[04cobrawhine]

Yes sir

 

[speedfreak94]

Okay well I've got a list of pointers for you. Please note, that I have no way of knowing what your skill level or familiarity with the products in question is, so forgive me if at any point it sounds like I'm talking down. I just want to help. That said, lets dig into this...

For starters, your clutch is almost undoubtedly dragging, as evidenced by the small 1-2 and 2-3 grinds (aka 'nibble') coming from your brand new trans. I'm not sure where you heard that Magnum synchros are "fragile" (I would not agree) but you are right in not wanting to continue driving it that way as you will end up ruining said synchros rather quickly. Now when it comes to addressing the clutch release (or lack thereof), there are many factors/components that could be impacting you as well as potential solutions. If it were me, the first thing I would do is adjust your firewall adjuster or cable to eliminate the air gap you left in it, thus eliminating lost travel in the release system. I know there are two very different schools of thought on the subject of air gap for the TO bearing, but personally I see no harm in preloading the bearing slightly--especially if it saves your synchros. Just be mindful that as the clutch discs wear the diaphragm will extend out further towards the TO bearing; meaning that you had better monitor the cable adjustment from time-to-time or you run a very real risk of prematurely wearing out your clutch. Factory hydraulic 'CSC' bearings in '05-up Mustangs ride against the pressure plate fingers constantly without issue. A key difference however is that they have nothing mechanical to stop them from moving back as the clutch wears; just a light spring pressure that keeps the bearing trapped between the pressure plate and trans at all times.

If you don't like or cannot fix the problem with that option, than another thing you could try is an adjustable pivot stud to move the fork away from the trans at the ball stud end, thus giving you more travel at the cable end. However this is obviously not an easy task as you may have to R&R the trans several times to get it just right. Furthermore, at that point you also need to be aware of the backside of the fork moving too far back and bottoming out against the trans itself--something that could happen anyway as your clutch wears over time, so be on the lookout.

Other factors that tend to plague just about any Fox/SN Mustang are things like cable stretch and firewall flex; especially when using a clutch with a high clamp load/pedal effort. Aside from that, while I'm not recommending you rag on a brand new gearbox until its broke in, don't be afraid to be a bit firm with the shifts. In my experience, Magnum transmission actually feel a bit 'clunkier' when you don't spank on them!

Good luck!

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

Change out the Mobile 1 for ATF Amsoil.. It took care of my grinding.. trust me

 

[04cobrawhine]

Okay well I've got a list of pointers for you. Please note, that I have no way of knowing what your skill level or familiarity with the products in question is, so forgive me if at any point it sounds like I'm talking down. I just want to help. That said, lets dig into this...

For starters, your clutch is almost undoubtedly dragging, as evidenced by the small 1-2 and 2-3 grinds (aka 'nibble') coming from your brand new trans. I'm not sure where you heard that Magnum synchros are "fragile" (I would not agree) but you are right in not wanting to continue driving it that way as you will end up ruining said synchros rather quickly. Now when it comes to addressing the clutch release (or lack thereof), there are many factors/components that could be impacting you as well as potential solutions. If it were me, the first thing I would do is adjust your firewall adjuster or cable to eliminate the air gap you left in it, thus eliminating lost travel in the release system. I know there are two very different schools of thought on the subject of air gap for the TO bearing, but personally I see no harm in preloading the bearing slightly--especially if it saves your synchros. Just be mindful that as the clutch discs wear the diaphragm will extend out further towards the TO bearing; meaning that you had better monitor the cable adjustment from time-to-time or you run a very real risk of prematurely wearing out your clutch. Factory hydraulic 'CSC' bearings in '05-up Mustangs ride against the pressure plate fingers constantly without issue. A key difference however is that they have nothing mechanical to stop them from moving back as the clutch wears; just a light spring pressure that keeps the bearing trapped between the pressure plate and trans at all times.

If you don't like or cannot fix the problem with that option, than another thing you could try is an adjustable pivot stud to move the fork away from the trans at the ball stud end, thus giving you more travel at the cable end. However this is obviously not an easy task as you may have to R&R the trans several times to get it just right. Furthermore, at that point you also need to be aware of the backside of the fork moving too far back and bottoming out against the trans itself--something that could happen anyway as your clutch wears over time, so be on the lookout.

Other factors that tend to plague just about any Fox/SN Mustang are things like cable stretch and firewall flex; especially when using a clutch with a high clamp load/pedal effort. Aside from that, while I'm not recommending you rag on a brand new gearbox until its broke in, don't be afraid to be a bit firm with the shifts. In my experience, Magnum transmission actually feel a bit 'clunkier' when you don't spank on them!

Good luck!

Thanks for the advice. I will kinda go though what you said...

The TOB preload. I will adjust it so it puts slight tension on the PP. I always thought that was a better choice as so many hydraulic cars like you said always have pressure on the pp. I feel the "shock" of going from not moving at all to full engine speed in a matter of fractions of a second cant be good for it.

I have an adjustable pivot ball set about 3/8" longer then stock to make it work in the correct geometry. Had the trans out 6 times to make sure that part was set perfectly... Or at least as close to perfect as possible.

I've heard the syncros are more fragile because they had to make them smaller in order to fit the bigger gears in there. Just what I heard from several spots.

I appreciate the help!!!

 

[04cobrawhine]

Change out the Mobile 1 for ATF Amsoil.. It took care of my grinding.. trust me

I will give that a shot also

 

[speedfreak94]

Glad to be of assistance cobrawhine. Regarding the Magnum gears and synchros, you're right that the Magnum has wider gears than the T-56, but it doesn't sacrifice synchro capacity to get there. The hubs and sliders in a Magnum/6060 are a lot narrower than the T-56, but the friction rings are a larger diameter and actually have more surface area. The clutching teeth on the speed gears are finer, but there's also a lot more of them then were on the T-56 gears, so I guess its an equal trade from a durability standpoint. Anyways, again, good luck and keep us posted!

 

[SlowSVT]

There are syncro updates for the Magnum.

 

[04cobrawhine]

There are syncro updates for the Magnum.

Updates or upgrades? Please explain

 

[speedfreak94]

Kinda-sorta both... I'm assuming that slowSVT is talking about the 'hybrid' synchros that can be found in the latest batch of TR6060's; which is more or less a pairing of the two materials that Tremec uses on all 6060/Magnum friction rings--sintered bronze and carbon composite. Early Magnums like mine use bronze all the way through the box, while later versions like yours use a similar package but with a triple-cone carbon arrangement for second gear. Calling the hybrid rings an 'upgrade' would be debatable, but an 'update', sure.

If you were really planning to abuse your trans I can give you a list of upgrades to consider (fork pads, cooling pump, REM treating, etc), but generally speaking Magnums are pretty dang tough right out of the box. If a swift-shifting 6-speed that can handle some abuse is what you were after then you made a good choice.

 

[SlowSVT]

Kinda-sorta both... I'm assuming that slowSVT is talking about the 'hybrid' synchros that can be found in the latest batch of TR6060's; which is more or less a pairing of the two materials that Tremec uses on all 6060/Magnum friction rings--sintered bronze and carbon composite. Early Magnums like mine use bronze all the way through the box, while later versions like yours use a similar package but with a triple-cone carbon arrangement for second gear. Calling the hybrid rings an 'upgrade' would be debatable, but an 'update', sure.

If you were really planning to abuse your trans I can give you a list of upgrades to consider (fork pads, cooling pump, REM treating, etc), but generally speaking Magnums are pretty dang tough right out of the box. If a swift-shifting 6-speed that can handle some abuse is what you were after then you made a good choice.

I had Liberty install the "upgrades" in the Magnum to improve the shifting action when I ordered it from them. Steel shift forks replaced the aluminum ones, bronze thrust pads, various bronze bushings and I think the syncros are of the triple cone carbon variety. My understanding is the Magnum shifts smoother than the T56 but even some of the hardware in the Magnum is not considered "high-end" parts.

 

[speedfreak94]

Really, steel forks in a Magnum? Hmmm... I'm certainly familiar with the practice in T-56's, but for Magnums that would be a new one on me. I've never seen a stock one break. Anyways, Liberty's is a good outfit. I'm sure whatever they did, they did it well!

 

[04cobrawhine]

The trans is about a year-year and half old, just didn't put it in till now. I will be putting on a cooling pump because I do half mile and one miles races. I'm not going to pull it out again for anything except putting an auto in lol

 

[SlowSVT]

Really, steel forks in a Magnum? Hmmm... I'm certainly familiar with the practice in T-56's, but for Magnums that would be a new one on me. I've never seen a stock one break. Anyways, Liberty's is a good outfit. I'm sure whatever they did, they did it well!

If I remember correctly the lower gear forks are all steel, 5 & 6th are aluminum. I think they're reasoning is it's not likely you will be slamming 5 & 6th. I think the T56 is the same way.

Yea, Liberty has been around since they invented dirt!

 

[98 Saleen Cobra]

I have one of the 1st T56 Mags, and one of the 1st on this forum. I Bought mine back in 08 or 09 I can't remember.. Anyways I had slight grinding (very very minimal) and only when it's cold.. Switched to AMSOIL ATF with Unleashedbeast on here and it all went away.. Trans couldn't shift any smoother if I wanted it to. Power shifting at 7500rpm is like cutting warm butter

 

[04cobrawhine]

Well that's obviously the cheapest route (after clutch adjustment) so looks like I'll be ordering some

This? http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-produ...c-automatic-transmission-fluid/?code=ATFQT-EA