The 5.8 Trinity Fits!!!

mustangletback

Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
84
Location
chicago
there's a guy 30 minutes from where my shop is, he has a 5.8l trinity motor he grabbed from a totaled GT500. sold the blower and manifold, the heads were slightly ported comp cams were ordered for the 5.8l 100MM TB and a sheet metal intake fabbed up by MMR that engine made 492HP at 6700RPM and 442FT lbs at lower RPM'S than the 5.0l.
the 5.8l has an advantage of 49 cubic inches. the current 5.0 makes 445HP at 6600RPM and 407 FT lbs.
that cubic inch advantage is going to compress more air and fuel than what the 5.0 can do in result making more power through the whole rpm range.
its just like the same heads/cams being on a 4.6l and swapped onto the 5.4l what engine is going to make more power? the 5.4l will. the 5.8l heads and 5.0l heads flow numbers don't really differ much. what people don't realize is they think they know what ford invested on the 5.8l ( in reality they don't) look at the previous comments ^^. in fact ford did invest a lot on the 5.8l trinity engine and has plans for it. the 5.8l will be standard for the mach1 package that was confirmed by ford and in the UAW contracts. and the new SVT product will have the 5.8l. and there will be no 5.2l engine in the mustang. 5.0 to 5.2? that's a joke. why stretch an existing engine out when you already have a bigger engine? people on this forum just don't get that.
sounds interesting,the gt,mach1,gt350,and maybe a SVT COBRA.the total destruction of the scrapmaro is coming.it seems like you have a good source.i remember my source from ohio at a FORD spot told me about 351 in the new GT500 well before they came out.he also said something about a 500hp four door car.team mustang is NOT worried about the next CRAPMARO.:dancenana:
 

americansteel

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
281
Location
delaware
So you just lack business sense then. You fail to realize that the people saying they don't need it are looking at it from a business perspective and are being realistic when they say Ford doesn't need another sports car or supercar to compete, and also understand why they won't build one. I desparately want another Ford GT to hit the market, I'd be content with the same exact car from 04-05 with just some minor updates, but it doesn't make sense right now in their business plan. You wonder why Ford is doing so well right now as one of the brands at the very forefront of the industry? Because of smart decisions. You're complaining about a very small percentage of sales that would benefit Ford based off of the attention they would draw to the brand and that's it. Ford would likely take more of a loss on any major effort to build a serious sports car because that money could be utilized in better products.
actually if ford brought out a new car powered by a V8 whether it be a 2 door or 4 door car that vehicle would sell simple as that. it wouldn't be a waste on fords part! just like every other product they brought out they sold well and decently. look at the raptor there was no market at all for such a vehicle this truck sold in expectations. the ranger which had more of a market was still selling well yet ford pulled the plug on the truck only because ford wanted more people in F150's where did the loyal ranger fan base go to? the competitor. ford now realizes the mistake and is opening a new strategy on the north American ranger. I have more business sense that most people on this forum do! and being part of ford investments with 7K invested in ford motor company that investment has tripled in 5 months on every dollar. I being a total net worth of 1.2 million I think I know about a business especially when I have multiple investments and a business of my own that does pretty good despite the economic furloughs.
I would love ford to make a sports car it would sell decently but I rather have a new car 2 door car and the mustang does not fit my needs. now after I post this comment Im expecting more trolls to come on this thread and insult me. but of course like always I am right especially having UAW contract copy's and all of ford investment and future planning writ's available to me. just like the 5.8l I was right! that engine is coming.
 

americansteel

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
281
Location
delaware
sounds interesting,the gt,mach1,gt350,and maybe a SVT COBRA.the total destruction of the scrapmaro is coming.it seems like you have a good source.i remember my source from ohio at a FORD spot told me about 351 in the new GT500 well before they came out.he also said something about a 500hp four door car.team mustang is NOT worried about the next CRAPMARO.:dancenana:

I get my information from ford motor company and an exec I know. from what I was told the GT350 will be ford's new "track car". the GT being standard of course and the Mach1 being an upgrade from the GT base. now that you said it I do remember ford stating something about a V8 four door. as long as the Camaro doesn't get to the mustang weight or below it there is nothing to worry about. if that does happen then the mustang will have no chance. at 6.2l with 376 cubic inches the 5.0 wont keep up! we will have to wait and see.

here's one for you! back in a few years ago I posted about a 351 coming to the GT500 yet I got ridiculed about that statement on this forum I got banned for it.
well what engine does the GT500 have? a 351.
 
Last edited:

14GT500Robert

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
81
Location
So Cal
I get my information from ford motor company and an exec I know. from what I was told the GT350 will be ford's new "track car". the GT being standard of course and the Mach1 being an upgrade from the GT base. now that you said it I do remember ford stating something about a V8 four door. as long as the Camaro doesn't get to the mustang weight or below it there is nothing to worry about. if that does happen then the mustang will have no chance. at 6.2l with 376 cubic inches the 5.0 wont keep up! we will have to wait and see.

here's one for you! back in a few years ago I posted about a 351 coming to the GT500 yet I got ridiculed about that statement on this forum I got banned for it.
well what engine does the GT500 have? a 351.

Hi,
Very interesting stuff, thanks
 

14GT500Robert

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
81
Location
So Cal
I heard some rumors of the 5.8 in the S550 while I was at the SEMA Show in Vegas , I posted in another forum I think, and wow did I get bashed. I have no inside ford info or anything but work in the entertainment industry and we hear things also.Flared, vented aluminum from fenders to match rear width, special hood, supercharged 5.0 upgrade
Production on the niche line was to start 8/14 I think.
 
Last edited:

germeezy1

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,173
Location
Seattle
I find it interesting that modern Mustang enthusiasts seem to hate cubic inches, and talk in ricer terms like hp per liter. Maybe I am old but I remember when 331, and 347 strokers based on the 4.9 Windsor were quite popular. When did cubic inches become a bad thing for pony car enthusiasts?
 

mustangletback

Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2013
Messages
84
Location
chicago
I get my information from ford motor company and an exec I know. from what I was told the GT350 will be ford's new "track car". the GT being standard of course and the Mach1 being an upgrade from the GT base. now that you said it I do remember ford stating something about a V8 four door. as long as the Camaro doesn't get to the mustang weight or below it there is nothing to worry about. if that does happen then the mustang will have no chance. at 6.2l with 376 cubic inches the 5.0 wont keep up! we will have to wait and see.

here's one for you! back in a few years ago I posted about a 351 coming to the GT500 yet I got ridiculed about that statement on this forum I got banned for it.
well what engine does the GT500 have? a 351.
i hear you on that.hp wise i think the mach1 should have at least 500hp.it would need to have more power than the gt.if it gets 500hp or more depends on the weight of the car,it should give that z28 a good run,or beat it.from what i heard,the gt350 might just run up there by the z06.as far as that four door,i think that is still in the works.it was suppose to be fore the 300 and chargers.i also think we will see a lincoln based on the mustang.it is very possible,because if i remember right,the old lincoln ls,and thunderbird were the same cars under the sheet metal.:pepper:
 

Jroc

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2007
Messages
7,900
Location
SC
I find it interesting that modern Mustang enthusiasts seem to hate cubic inches, and talk in ricer terms like hp per liter. Maybe I am old but I remember when 331, and 347 strokers based on the 4.9 Windsor were quite popular. When did cubic inches become a bad thing for pony car enthusiasts?

You are confusing what we are getting at. No one is knock ci's. More ci's are great IMO. It's where Ford made the extra ci's with a 5.4 based motor where the problem is. Just like the older SBF's the extra displacement is gain in the stroke of the crank as opposed to an increase in the size of the bore. That's great on a old SBF that came factory with a 4" bore, but a Modular has a 3.552" bore which is extremely small for a larger America v8. I believe a new 5.8 uses a 3.68" bore to make it's extra displacement over a 5.4, but even still a 4.165" stroke is huge for a motor with such a small bore size.

There are several negative to this in a performance motor:
-First it mean you need a tall block to run this stroke. That adds noticeable weight that is carried noticeably higher up in the chassis. That is not desirable in a car that you want to make handle well. It also means on a V type motor that it's going to be wider.
-Second it greatly limits the amount of RPM's that it can safely spin as a engine with a 5/8 longer stroke(pretty much the increase in stroke between 4.6, and 5.4 based motors) will be turning much high piston speeds at and given RPM than a motor with a shorter stroke. This obviously will create more heat at any give RPM. I've noticed that 5.4's like to come up to operating temperatures much quicker than 4.6's, and the only reason I can figure is the pistons are traveling faster at any RPM.
-Third you have got to give the rods some room to move side to side, and long stroke/small bore motor like a 5.4 is starting to push those limits. I believe that the the piston slap issue that is common with 5.4's when they're cold is because the stroke is so long and the bore so small that to clear the bottom of the cylinder that the length of the cylinder is less than idea in a 5.4 and it can be noisy when the motor is cold.
-Fourth why do you think one of the main reasons a 2v 6.2's topend is so much more efficient than a 2v Modulars? Because on a small bore motor like a Modular you have to run much smaller valves. On a larger bore motor you don't need 4v a cylinder to be efficient as 2 large valve will flow air/fuel/exhaust in and out of the cylinder much more efficiently than 2 small valves.

I can likely come up with more reason as to why a long stroke motor like a 5.4 is less than idea for a performance application than say a new Coyote, but you get what I'm saying. If Ford build a all aluminum 6.2 Boss based performance motor and got it to fit in the new Mustang that would make me happy as hell. Hell with the displacement capability's the new Boss motors have then give it 429ci's and build a badass N/A high revving Mustang Boss 429. With that said the 5.4 was designed to be a truck motor that made good lowend torque over a broad range. It's originals never meant it to be some high revving topend powerhouse. I'm not trying to take away the potential that the 5.4/5.8 Tritons have, I'm simply saying that Ford has better options for high HP Mustangs with some of their new v8's and the smaller new 5.0 motors are one of them.

A old SBF uses a 4" bore with a 2.87" stroke,(289) a 3" stroke,(302) and a 3.5" stroke.(351) Many believe that the smaller stroke/displacement SBF stroke kits are better than the larger ones from a reliability stand point. A 331 stroke crank uses a 3.25" stroke where a 347 uses a 3.4" stroke. When talking 351 based motors a 393 uses a 3.85" stroke, and 408 uses a 4" stroke, and a 427 uses a 4.170" stroke.(pretty much the same as a 5.4/5.8 Modular but with a much larger bore) I've been told that getting over 4" with the stroke is not idea on a performance motor. I'm no expert, or engine builder and obviously you take deck heights, rod lengths, and all that into consideration when determining a good reliable stroke to use, but from what I've been taught is 4" is a good stopping point for most SB's.
 

germeezy1

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jan 8, 2006
Messages
1,173
Location
Seattle
Jroc I know all of the things that you posted, and my post was not intended for those who know the technical aspects , and comparisons between the Trinity, and Coyote. My post was for those who just generally believe the hype that the Coyote is the end all be all of engines, and that Ford enthusiasts driving anything other than a GT or Boss are idiots.
 

FortLewisCobra

Member
Established Member
Joined
Dec 9, 2009
Messages
345
Location
My house
My post was for those who just generally believe the hype that the Coyote is the end all be all of engines, and that Ford enthusiasts driving anything other than a GT or Boss are idiots.

No has posted that in this thread. We've just brought up the numerous reasons why we wont see the 5.8 trinity, not the least of which is because they've stopped producing it and are reconfiguring its old niche line. A 5.8 based on a tall deck coyote is more likely than the original 5.4 based one, if you want something to rest your hopes on. Maybe well get real lucky and get the 6.2. Even so its not the end of the world, would you take the 95R 351 over the 2000R 5.4? Ford moves on and we will eventually get a better motor because of it.

BTW If you guys want it so badly you can always buy a body in white and build your own 5.8 S550 once the 2015 is out.
 

americansteel

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
281
Location
delaware
Americansteel… what happened to your insistence that the GT350/SVT was going to be a SC Coyote?
i never wrote the gt350 will have the 5.8l what i wrote was the gt350 will be fords new track car nd gt500 replacement. that the gt350 will possibaly use a S/C 5.0 or a N/A 5.0l. I also wrote the SVT cobra may or may not use a S/C 5.8L. The Mach1 standard with N/A 5.8l.
 

jes_csx

Member
Established Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2007
Messages
147
Location
Upper midwest
i never wrote the gt350 will have the 5.8l what i wrote was the gt350 will be fords new track car nd gt500 replacement. that the gt350 will possibaly use a S/C 5.0 or a N/A 5.0l. I also wrote the SVT cobra may or may not use a S/C 5.8L. The Mach1 standard with N/A 5.8l.

Yes, you said 5.0 SC coyote for gt350. You never said NA 5.0 coyote. If its a "track car", its a NA boss replacement, not gt500.
You also repeatedly said 5.0 in the GT was getting NO changes... direct carryover with no power increase. We now know this to be wrong. In fact you went to great lengths to tell us the coyote is nothing special ... just a 4.6 with more cid and better block.... the condor/trinity is better etc. Then you back pedaled and said the 5.8 you speak of may actually be coyote based with the typical coyote improvements, not an NA version of the trinity as you originally stated. I probably missed something... I cant keep up and I'm not going to go back and quote the specific posts right now.

That said, I heard something interesting about Ford considering to whip out an SE with significantly more cid then we have seen in a very long time... so some of the 6.2 speculation may have some legs.
 
Last edited:

americansteel

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
281
Location
delaware
Yes, you said 5.0 SC coyote for gt350. You never said NA 5.0 coyote. If its a "track car", its a NA boss replacement, not gt500.
You also repeatedly said 5.0 in the GT was getting NO changes... direct carryover with no power increase. We now know this to be wrong. In fact you went to great lengths to tell us the coyote is nothing special ... just a 4.6 with more cid and better block.... the condor/trinity is better etc. Then you back pedaled and said the 5.8 you speak of may actually be coyote based with the typical coyote improvements, not an NA version of the trinity as you originally stated. I probably missed something... I cant keep up and I'm not going to go back and quote the specific posts right now.

That said, I heard something interesting about Ford considering to whip out an SE with significantly more cid then we have seen in a very long time... so some of the 6.2 speculation may have some legs.

I wrote the GT350 may or may not use a F/I 5.0.
I did write the new 5.8l that will be built soon may or may not be coyote based, but I couldn't get a definite answer from my friend.
I also wrote the 5.0 may have no changes but I corrected my self in a post 3 weeks before ford released the S550 information several weeks back, and I was right!
the 5.8l trinity is a better engine in F/I or N/A form either way. the 5.8l will always outperform the 5.0l just because of the extra cubic inches. yes I am right the 5.0 is nothing more than an improved version of the 4.6l with an aluminum block and better cooling.
another post I commented on was the 5.8l being in the SVT cobra yet I got news 3 days ago ford might not even make a cobra mustang, but has plans for a new SVT product.

"That said, I heard something interesting about Ford considering to whip out an SE with significantly more cid then we have seen in a very long time... so some of the 6.2 speculation may have some legs" I can look into that.

another thing I worte about was the Mach1 using a 5.8l N/A and being the model upgrade from the GT. from what I was told ford has not changed the planning on this car.
 
Last edited:

G-Mann

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2012
Messages
45
Location
Texas
I recall the Top Gear review of the 2013 GT500, "its an engine looking for a chassis" is what they had to say.

So Ford builds the chassis and then dumps the engine ?????? Does not make sense to me. Sign me up for one if I can get the trinity engine.
 

jbs$

Active Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2012
Messages
2,992
Location
Denver, NC
Question, does anyone see any value in purchasing a complete 5.8 crate engine as a hold for possible future use. If not used in a project, would the unused and properly stored unit have value in, say 8 to 10 years?
 

14GT500Robert

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jun 28, 2013
Messages
81
Location
So Cal
Question, does anyone see any value in purchasing a complete 5.8 crate engine as a hold for possible future use. If not used in a project, would the unused and properly stored unit have value in, say 8 to 10 years?

That's a interesting idea, How cool would it be to have a boss 429 in the crate right now, I know that's more like 40 years and more rare but, still might be cool to have a 5.8 crate down the road.
 

americansteel

Banned
Joined
Apr 1, 2013
Messages
281
Location
delaware
Question, does anyone see any value in purchasing a complete 5.8 crate engine as a hold for possible future use. If not used in a project, would the unused and properly stored unit have value in, say 8 to 10 years?
they dont hold value. i would sell a GT 5.4L for $3.700
if youre looking for a 5.8l most cost effective way is for a 3.700 block 4 valve heads a blower of your choice.
 

Boss949

New Member
Established Member
Joined
Jul 25, 2012
Messages
348
Location
Trophy Club, TX
I'll jump in. It's entertaining to read this stuff and I'm sure there are some valid friends and/or contacts that would be spreading info on future Ford; FRPP/Development projects.

I'll throw my info into the ring:

2016/17 SVT Cobra (track monster off the showroom) 5.8 N/A with a goal of 640 HP. Currently having issues getting to the 640.

Is this the answer to the Z28? My question, not anything I've heard.
 
Last edited:

Users who are viewing this thread



Top