Under hood temps and dynoing with the hood up explained

[MikeLTDLX]

My best pass prior to the JLT:

[youtube_browser]BBIc4pXsTeQ[/youtube_browser]

After I installed the JLT:

[youtube_browser]7E0q2ihl6u8[/youtube_browser]

I know these are different days at the track. However, when I went 11.96 the DA was -300. When I went 11.90, it was +1850. 60 foot on the 11.96 was 1.67, 1.7 on the 11.90.

I plan on being out again this Sunday, and I will do some more JLT and box runs.

Mike

 

[wbt]

My best pass prior to the JLT:

[youtube_browser]BBIc4pXsTeQ[/youtube_browser]

After I installed the JLT:

[youtube_browser]7E0q2ihl6u8[/youtube_browser]

I know these are different days at the track. However, when I went 11.96 the DA was -300. When I went 11.90, it was +1850. 60 foot on the 11.96 was 1.67, 1.7 on the 11.90.

I plan on being out again this Sunday, and I will do some more JLT and box runs.

Mike

Along with tune revisions other than the transfer function changed. Another variable to play into the consideration.

 

[MikeLTDLX]

Along with tune revisions other than the transfer function changed. Another variable to play into the consideration.

Revisions deemed necessary by my tuner to insure the engine run safely, yes. Shaun was able to make changes that utilized the additional airflow from the JLT, and did not limit those changes to a simple MAF transfer function. The reason for this was that there were more changes required for proper operation.

Perhaps this is what Shaun has done right, and others have not? He has tuned the engine for the JLT, and has looked at all aspects. I am happy with the results, even if they do not rise to the level of scientific reliability that people in these threads seem to require. This weekend, weather permitting, I hope to knock a couple more tenths off of this time with the new slicks.

Mike

 

[ViciousJay]

Revisions deemed necessary by my tuner to insure the engine run safely, yes. Shaun was able to make changes that utilized the additional airflow from the JLT, and did not limit those changes to a simple MAF transfer function. The reason for this was that there were more changes required for proper operation.

Perhaps this is what Shaun has done right, and others have not? He has tuned the engine for the JLT, and has looked at all aspects. I am happy with the results, even if they do not rise to the level of scientific reliability that people in these threads seem to require. This weekend, weather permitting, I hope to knock a couple more tenths off of this time with the new slicks.

Mike

shhhhhh stop giving them secrets

 

[wbt]

Revisions deemed necessary by my tuner to insure the engine run safely, yes. Shaun was able to make changes that utilized the additional airflow from the JLT, and did not limit those changes to a simple MAF transfer function. The reason for this was that there were more changes required for proper operation.

Perhaps this is what Shaun has done right, and others have not? He has tuned the engine for the JLT, and has looked at all aspects. I am happy with the results, even if they do not rise to the level of scientific reliability that people in these threads seem to require. This weekend, weather permitting, I hope to knock a couple more tenths off of this time with the new slicks.

Mike

Tuning around a hardware issue/design problem. That is not the proper method as discussed on modularfords.com.

What I am getting at is that, as you have acknowledged, same day/same track testing hasn't been completed with your setup. I could compare a 11.63 run with my 2011 M6 car to a 11.31 run with my 2012 A6 car but that doesn't really net anything useful especially it being different days, different conditions.

To date we have 3 different cars, 3 different tests using different tunes all providing very similar results in comparing the stock CAI to aftermarket CAI's. There are other's who have also done independent testing with almost identical results.

How does this relate to the thread? What you see on a dyno, hood up, down or sideways, doesn't always translate to real world testing. Your tuner and I had quite a lengthy PM chain going on about this last year.

 

[MikeLTDLX]

Tuning around a hardware issue/design problem. That is not the proper method as discussed on modularfords.com.

What I am getting at is that, as you have acknowledged, same day/same track testing hasn't been completed with your setup. I could compare a 11.63 run with my 2011 M6 car to a 11.31 run with my 2012 A6 car but that doesn't really net anything useful especially it being different days, different conditions.

FWIW, I have done a little tweaking to my JLT and I have been able to make a nice improvement in the "noise" that Shaun was experiencing.

Also, I don't think it is quite as extreme a comparison as an A6 to an M6. This is the same car, and the conditions were drastically worse when I went quicker and faster, and I had a slower 60 foot.

However, I hope this weekend results in me finally making a determination of whether this JLT intake has made a real difference on my car, or not.

Mike

 

[mastwolf]

Open stock air box vs Sealed stock air box.
Open = Blue
Sealed = Red

I had seen a few people wounder what it would do, so here it is.

Few Side notes,
Both Runs where with in 2* Engine Temps
Loads and Spark where Identical
- @4800rpm where the graphs differ, the closed box had .01 more load and 1* more spark but as you can see, still made less power.

This is with a AFE Drop in filter.

This is on a Stock Auto car.


Chris

 

[SicShelby09]

Open stock air box vs Sealed stock air box.
Open = Blue
Sealed = Red

I had seen a few people wounder what it would do, so here it is.

Few Side notes,
Both Runs where with in 2* Engine Temps
Loads and Spark where Identical
- @4800rpm where the graphs differ, the closed box had .01 more load and 1* more spark but as you can see, still made less power.

This is with a AFE Drop in filter.

This is on a Stock Auto car.


Chris

As American Muscle would say, "There is a 7hp gain throughout the curve!".....lol

 

[wbt]

FWIW, I have done a little tweaking to my JLT and I have been able to make a nice improvement in the "noise" that Shaun was experiencing.

Also, I don't think it is quite as extreme a comparison as an A6 to an M6. This is the same car, and the conditions were drastically worse when I went quicker and faster, and I had a slower 60 foot.

However, I hope this weekend results in me finally making a determination of whether this JLT intake has made a real difference on my car, or not.

Mike

I wasn't making a dig at you, just that you haven't had the chance to do back to back testing. Good luck this weekend. I will be out making a few more passes myself.

 

[mikestoyz]

What needs to be done tune wise doesnt mean thats cheating the numbers. If someone is able to tune more power out of it, let er rip. Shaun owns a stock air boxed car if I recall correctly, he knows how to tune that. And I know of the hours Mike and he spent getting the JLT right. Its all good, it just needs a good tune to take advantage/adjust what needs to be adjusted.

 

[wbt]

What needs to be done tune wise doesnt mean thats cheating the numbers. If someone is able to tune more power out of it, let er rip. Shaun owns a stock air boxed car if I recall correctly, he knows how to tune that. And I know of the hours Mike and he spent getting the JLT right. Its all good, it just needs a good tune to take advantage/adjust what needs to be adjusted.

Shaun had to make changes that shouldn't have to be changed based on the brand "J" MAF signal quality. This doesn't seem to be the case using a different aftermarket CAI or stock CAI. I would suggest checking out the thread on modularfods.com titled "CAI's and MAF signal quality". There is some very good info in there on several observations. ;-)

 

[MikeLTDLX]

In the end, if we found more power with the JLT, I am not bothered by the workarounds. Results are really all I care about. I know my car runs great. No issues, smooth idle, no surge and great power. Also, the JLT signal is not that dirty, and can be cleaned up. Here is my last log, showing MAF frequency:

 

[TheCPE]

Open stock air box vs Sealed stock air box.

How was it done? Filter glued/taped onto the lid?

Bottom portion of box removed and then lid with filter attached placed back down in same location?

 

[mastwolf]

How was it done? Filter glued/taped onto the lid?

Bottom portion of box removed and then lid with filter attached placed back down in same location?

The AFE filter made it easy.. taped to lid then the bottom of the filter acted as a surface to rest it on.. i should have taken a photo but I did this real quick before going to the track.

Sent via 3Gs and WIFIs

 

[TheCPE]

Was the bottom of the stock box still in there or did you remove it?

Interesting results, definitely shows there is some restriction with the box sealed on a dyno, especially if with less timing it still made a few hp more with it opened.

 

[JerryC]

Question, so if the underhood temps arent really a problem why do the CAI makers sell a CAI? Why build the box around the filter and call it a CAI? Could a some of the cost be cut off by not selling the enclosure and still get the same dyno and track results as with the enclosure?

 

[mastwolf]

Was the bottom of the stock box still in there or did you remove it?

Interesting results, definitely shows there is some restriction with the box sealed on a dyno, especially if with less timing it still made a few hp more with it opened.

The bottom of the intake box was left alone, the way it was sitting the filter was out of the box and was in no way restricted by it.

Take this data and use it how you would like. I just did it cause I had an open dyno and a few min to kill.


Chris

 

[Impetuous]

This seems like a never ending argument. I have 2 personal reasons of why I would not buy an aftermarket intake; 1 if the intake requires a lot of tuning effort, why bother for such a small gain? and 2 I believe they are way overpriced for what you're getting. I'm not taking shots at any specific brand, more like at every aftermarket intake. I can see bigger gains if the engine is an all out n/a build or FI, so I'm not totally against it. Just not worth it in my book if you have minimal mods.

 

[Ry_Trapp0]

look at that, you post up some solid facts and useful information, and the three stooges come in reposting their flawed garbage science yet again!

great post and great video jay! destroy them with FACTS!

 

[wbt]

look at that, you post up some solid facts and useful information, and the three stooges come in reposting their flawed garbage science yet again!

great post and great video jay! destroy them with FACTS!

Look at that! It's the guy who blasts off at the mouth who has nothing to give on said topic!

1. You don't own one of these cars.
2. You don't have ANY experience with them.
3. You don't have ANY data/results of your own.
4. This all adds to to 0 experience on said subject from you. Nothing to offer.

Good job. :kaboom: