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Discussion in 'Road Side Pub' started by Mr Rx-7 tt, Aug 6, 2004.
This post deserves viewing. Hey you Kerry supporters let's hear your rebuttals.
Interesting. I'd like to hear more from then. Only thing they said was he lied and didn't tell the truth. So what exactly was the truth? What was the difference between what he said and what happened? :shrug:
If these can support their statements, then I cannot criticize them. But if they are not being honest, they are no better than deceitful leftwing character assassins.
Turn on your AM radio right now and listen to Michael Savage. He's interviewing some of the swiftvets guys right now. One dude named Steve Gardner, who served under Kerry's command and was on his boat, is slamming Kerry big time. Once again the mainstream liberal media (ABCBSCNNBC) are the ones lying.
YUP! Even though according to the San Francisco chronicle, EVERYONE on his swift boat supported him. Outright lies!!!!
Say what you want about John Kerry. At least he served in Vietnam. I'll take the opinion of the men who served under his command before I'll take the opinion of a bunch of rightwing ass kissers trying to help the idiot Bush get reelected.
In a way I wish the idiot Bush would have served in Vietnam. Mainly because he surely would have been one of those officers who would have been fraged by his own men.
I'd rather have a dude who lied a little bit than an incompetant coke snorter.
Take a read: http://www.disinfopedia.org/wiki.phtml?title=Swift_Boat_Veterans_for_Truth
It might boil down to not what Senator Kerry did during the war but after. Not the fact that he protested the war but that he turned his back on his fellow soldiers and betrayed them. Now that he uses his service record for his campaign, some of those soldiers remember what he did after the fact. Betraying your men is usually a no no in leadership 101.
I'm a military officer and aviator who has recently seen awards and medals handed out for, IMO, actions that are undeserving. I'm referring to air medals and a bronze star or two that were awarded for NFO's flying in the back of E-2's who were no where near a high threat area and now wear some impressive chest candy. I couldn't look myself in the mirror if I was awarded medals for flying circles on the border of Pakistan and Afghanistan. Obviously riverboats are much different but obviously so are the perspectives of those in the action.
I often chuckle at those who call the President (even Senator Kerry) idiots. Idiots compared to who? You. If someone calls the President an idiot, they must have one hell of a resume to back up that statement. I say prove you have the success, the background, the achievements, and the brains. Otherwise, I'm thinking you're just talking out of your ass. It usually takes an idiot to know an idiot.
If Bush is such an idiot how did he score higher on the SAT than Kerry? Look it up.
Steve Gardner served under Kerry and does not think much of him.
What's a right wing ass kisser? Military people? Hot Rodders?
Yes, you said that. Who cares about integrity, morals, or standards.....he served in nam. Are you kidding? :xpl:
That's an interesting position to take. What have you heard about these men? Why is anything john kerry says any less or more true, false, honest or dishonest than the Vets in the ad? Why not be AS suspicious of john kerry? Because he's your guy? Or just because he's not Bush?
I stand by what I said. If anybody is "unfit to serve" it's George W. Gump. One guy is already flip flopping about what he said:
Director, Annenberg Political Fact Check
Brooks Jackson is a journalist who covered Washington and national politics for 32 years, reporting in turn for
The Associated Press, the Wall Street Journal and CNN
Yep, I do what ever CNN says....It's like the bible
What does that have to do with john kerry and the Vet's making the claim?
How do you know kerry is telling the truth and these guys aren't? I already know what your answer is anyway. It is very obvious.
HERE YOU GO ROOKIE [email protected]! What is YOUR response to this.
There is ALWAYS two sides to every story!
Records contradict claims by anti-Kerry veterans
Military records of John Kerry's service in Vietnam contradict many of the charges made by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group questioning Kerry's war record.
BY JOSEPH S. GALLOWAY
WASHINGTON - Military records support John Kerry's account of his service in Vietnam and have backed at least two of his accusers into a corner.
Kerry defended himself on Thursday against accusations by a group of fellow Navy veterans of Vietnam that he was a liar and a coward. The accusations were made in a book and in an attack ad that polls show have chipped away at Kerry's standing with veterans in three critical states -- West Virginia, Wisconsin and Ohio.
The long-ago Vietnam War has suddenly become a central issue in the presidential campaign. The attacks by the group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth have called into account Kerry's conduct during the war, when he volunteered for one of the most dangerous duties -- the so-called Brown Water Navy, which regularly penetrated Viet Cong-controlled territory via the maze of waterways in the Mekong Delta.
Although the 15 veterans featured in the attack ad all state ''I served with John Kerry,'' none of them served on the same boat with him. Those who did, such as retired Chief Petty Officer Del Sandusky, 60, of Clearwater, praise Kerry for his leadership and credit him with keeping them alive.
''We are really upset at this stuff,'' Sandusky told Knight Ridder. ``They are calling us all liars. They dishonor us and they dishonor all those who died over there. They are getting awfully desperate. Last year many of them were on board with us. Now they are telling outrageous lies.''
Kerry has said that members of the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth lied when they said he inflated his role in various combat actions in the Mekong Delta and had manipulated the award of three Purple Heart medals for wounds and Bronze and Silver Star medals for valor in combat.
Kerry released a stack of his military records -- including after-action reports, citations for his medals, boat damage reports and his officer efficiency reports. These records -- and the military records of at least one of his accusers -- cast serious doubt on some of the more inflammatory assertions raised by the group.
CHANGE OF HEART?
It didn't help the cause of the Swift Boat Veterans group that some of them, including their leader, retired Rear Adm. Roy Hoffman, were on the record praising Kerry for his service in Vietnam.
Kerry's commanding officer in Vietnam, George Elliott, said in an attack ad: ``John Kerry has not been honest about what happened in Vietnam.''
But during the war, Elliott recommended Kerry for the Silver and Bronze Star medals for valor in combat and gave him the highest possible praise in his officer efficiency reports.
''In a combat environment often requiring independent, decisive action, LTJG Kerry was unsurpassed,'' Elliott wrote in 1969. He went on to rate Kerry as ``calm, professional and highly courageous in the face of enemy fire.''
In 16 categories on Kerry's officer efficiency report, Elliott gave Kerry the highest possible rating -- ''is not exceeded'' -- in 11 categories, and the second-highest, ''one of the top 10'' in five other categories.
Elliott in 1996 supported Kerry in his reelection campaign for the Senate and during an appearance in Boston declared that Kerry had earned the Silver Star ``for an act of courage.''
Another critic, Larry Thurlow, a fellow swift boat commander in the Mekong Delta in 1969, disputed Kerry's assertion that his boat and others in the five-boat patrol came under enemy fire during a March 13, 1969, mission that earned Kerry a Bronze Star.
Thurlow said that although one of the swift boats was disabled by a mine explosion, there was no enemy fire from shore, as Kerry and others testified, and that Kerry's account was ''a total fabrication.'' Thurlow said in an affidavit: ``I never heard a shot.''
However, a citation for the Bronze Star with valor awarded to Thurlow for that same mission stated that his actions ''took place under constant enemy small arms fire which [Thurlow] completely ignored'' while he provided assistance to the damaged swift boat and the wounded aboard.
Thurlow's account was further called into question by a damage assessment report on another swift boat, PCF-51, involved in the March 13 action. The report listed three .30-caliber bullet holes in the superstructure of the 50-foot patrol boat.
The swift boat veterans also have cast doubt on Kerry's account that a second mine explosion damaged his boat, PCF-94, and blew an Army Special Forces officer, Jim Rassmann, overboard. Kerry's Bronze Star was awarded for his rescue of Rassmann, who credited Kerry with saving his life.
In a month when the Democratic nominee had hoped to avoid running any ads to conserve money for the final sprint this fall, Kerry strategists instead prepared to spend nearly $200,000 responding to the veterans ads in key states.
The bulk of the funding for the swift boat veterans group comes from wealthy Texas Republicans. A new ad was released Friday, this time focusing on Kerry's testimony against the Vietnam War in 1971.
here is the link Newspaper
Swift vets are funded mostly by rich republicans, and the same vets discrediting Kerry now praised him in records, HIGHLY.
Sort of perjury IMO
Damn, my first post in this thread was going to support Kerry, then I saw this idiotic post and had to point out how stupid you are. Morons like you shouldn't have the right to vote.