VMP GEN 3

[1Kona_Venom]

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VMP GEN 2 R be ok ? Injectors, voltage booster pump and a tune should be fine correct? I really appreciate your info as well

One more time, cut and pasted from my build thread
Omit what you already have

Mods:
**VMP Gen2r, 2.5"
Twin 67MM
JLT 123
13/14 Injectors
VMP Daul BAP
NGK TR71Z Plugs
Metco Idler
170 Thermostat
VMP Heat Exchanger
3X OEM look Coolant Tank

**Substitute for Trinity blower if you decide you want to run that.

 

[fullboogie]

PMS Performance will be along shortly to tell you why all of you are wrong. LMAO.

 

[Thomas Cory]

Really appreciate everyone’s feedback, all of you guys are super knowledgeable regarding what I’m trying to accomplish. With everything I learned I will proceed .

 

[03cobra#694]

PMS Performance will be along shortly to tell you why all of you are wrong. LMAO.

You need to back off. Understand me?

 

[Thomas Cory]

LOL ! All of you guys have all the best info ......

 

[mdoan]

I did virtually the same upgrades you're looking into about a year ago after buying a used VMP Gen 2. This was also my first Shelby build; mine is a 2010, so should be very similar - if not identical - to the same mod list for a 2012.

These are the supporting mods I chose - based largely on feedback from this forum - which have worked without issue for a year of daily driving now. They should work well for your application as well:
- Ford 56# injectors. It sounds like 13/14 injectors are the way to go if you're going with a 13/14 blower. These are substantially cheaper than IDX injectors and do the job just fine. I personally prefer to stay with OEM if possible, but that's just me. For Ford parts, these are two vendors that are widely used by SVTP members and sell parts substantially cheaper than most local dealerships (possibly at cost):
AutoNation Ford White Bear Lake | Parts & Accessories | Auto Nation Ford White Bear Lake
Ford | TascaParts.com
- VMP Boost-A-Pump (BAP). You'll need two. I HIGHLY recommend these over the Kenne Bell option - I think those are the two most widely used - because they're plug-n-play. The KB BAP's have to be wired in and I've seen a user or two have issues. The VMP BAP's are a piece of cake.
- VMP Tune - If you don't find a shop you're comfortable with I've had great success with VMP email tunes. You simply provide your modifications in their online form and they contact you with your goals and email you the tune. If you purchase a pulley from them, the tune is free.
- Metco Idler Pulley - Do some research on this as I'm not sure about whether it's needed for a 2013/2014 swap. It is needed to use a stock serpentine belt with a VMP blower on our cars. Keep in mind that although the tensioner can adapt to a few pulley sizes, Metco officially only claims their idler pulley works with a 2.4" supercharger pulley. Some of their suppliers claim 2.4" to 2.8" are OK, but I trashed my AC compressor clutch bearing and have some accelerated wear on other accessory pullies that I believe to have been caused by running a 2.8" pulley. For my VMP Gen 2, the 2.6" pulley is the ideal diameter to use with Metco idler and is good for about 700 HP with these mods.
- SCT Tuner (x4 I believe) - This depends on whether or not you find a shop you want to work with and the tuner they prefer. If you go the VMP tuner route, this is the tuner they work with.
- JLT CAI - I use the 123mm (Big Air Intake). The used gen 2 blower was shipped with the 148mm (Super Big Air) but it was too big and I had idle issues.
- Stock Throttle Body - I also have the 67mm TB you mention and unfortunately had idle issues with the VMP tune. It may be too big for the 700hp to 750hp (crank) range. Just keep in mind there is nothing wrong with the stock TB for those power levels in my experience if you prefer a smooth idle and driveability at brake lights, etc.

Good luck! I hope this info is helpful. I'll edit with any other details if I think of them.​

 

[Thomas Cory]

Oh wow !!! Super appreciative for all the information you provided... and the time it took to write as well. Being I have the stock 13-14 blower I’m looking to goo that rout. I already have 67 mm, JLT 123 intake and the 2.5 pulley I was looking just to add the 13-14 blower, injectors, voltage fuel booster and a tune. What your thoughts.... seemed you provided the most feed back as well. Maybe we could connect via phone / text .... Tom (650)773-2760..... thank you for your time.

 

[HKusp]

The Lethal Performance dual plug-n-play boosters are an option (they are identical to the VMP's ,I have been told) and they are a few dollars cheaper. Kenne Bell also has a dual plug-n-play unit as well although I hear, due to Covid-19, they are currently closed. I just switched from the Kenne Bell to the Lethal Performance dials because I messed up my Kenne Bell, no fault of theirs, and I asked my tuner which he preferred. He said both VMP and Lethal are great units. The '13/'14 52lb/hr injector's will support 700WHP but you are beginning to run out of injector with them. I am running them and am happy, but they are on my list of things to replace when I inevitably "go bigger" with this car.

 

[SCALILOU]

Brother, Just an FYI because I want you to be wise in your decisions here, and make a plan.

In California, a 13-14 blower is not CARB compliant just because it comes from another GT500. You will not pass visual inspection with that blower unless you find a smog guy that knows nothing about these cars, which if this is their business, they're usually fairly knowledgeable about most makes and models. Every smog shop I've been to immediately starts telling me about the Cobra they own and the history of SVT and Shelby lol.

You could try grinding or milling the 5.8 off of the blower to make it look as stock as possible. That's going to be my next move.

I got sick of swapping blowers every 2 years to pass smog (I also had a gen2r)

Or you could just mod the car, cross your fingers and hope you pass smog. Just my 2¢

Thanks !! I am in California and want to drive the car frequently, so installing the blower off of the 13-14 gr500 would be the way to go. What other things do I need to consider before installing the 13-14 gt500 blower on my 2012 gt500 ???

 

[mdoan]

Oh wow !!! Super appreciative for all the information you provided... and the time it took to write as well. Being I have the stock 13-14 blower I’m looking to goo that rout. I already have 67 mm, JLT 123 intake and the 2.5 pulley I was looking just to add the 13-14 blower, injectors, voltage fuel booster and a tune. What your thoughts.... seemed you provided the most feed back as well. Maybe we could connect via phone / text .... Tom (650)773-2760..... thank you for your time.

I think you have the right plan. The only question mark I see is whether or not you will need an idler pulley to keep adequate tension on the belt since belt routing may or may not be close enough between the 13/14 and '12 models.

A lot of owners use the metco idler pulley (myself included), but there are plenty other options out there to choose between if you don't like the look or need a different position/size, etc. Hopefully someone who has done the 13/14 mod can chime in on belt tension. You could also contact metco (or any idler manufacturer you think you might go with) by phone and let them know your plans and they should be able to point you in the right direction. I did make one error in my post above - the metco is designed to be used with a 2.6" pulley if using a VMP blower/pulley in terms of being able to use the stock belt on our cars, not 2.4". You're not going to grenade everything if you're 0.1" to 0.2" off, but it can very well cause premature serpentine accessory pulley bearing failures, including the harmonic balancer (which I just replaced). At 2.5" I'd think you are on the "safer" side but I don't know where the 13/14 pulley snout sits compared to the '12 stocker or '12 VMP blower.

Long story short, if you're able to verify the right idler (if needed at all) and pulley combo to reuse the stock belt size, or can determine another belt length to use that'll accomplish the same goal - keeping near stock tension on the serpentine system - you should be good to go with the other mods mentioned above.

You have the right cold-air intake size for daily driveability; depending on which tuner you go with, if you have any idle issues don't be afraid to try the stock throttle body (if you have one). Do you have the 13/14 TB? A reputable shop should be able to tune out any idle issues but it was easier for me personally just to go back to the stock '10 TB and still make plenty of power as I hadn't yet found a local shop I could go to. With the larger TB I would get idle drops (almost to stalling) typically when approaching a red light and shifting into neutral.

In any case, you will need a tuning update any time you change the supercharger pulley, cold-air intake, throttle body, fuel injectors, or Boost-A-Pump. VMP tunes I believe are $50-$100 unless you purchase one of these components affecting the tuning, in which case the tune is free. A local shop may have to put it back on the dyno each time they retune it, which could get expensive, but they should also be able to get it right the first time if they know what they're doing. A lot of owners here also use Lund tuning and have had good experience with them if you go the email tune route, however I prefer VMP personally. A dyno tune at a good shop is going to net you the best results, though.

 

[HKusp]

I will say this in response to all of the great information mdoan has posted above. I agree with everything he posted except for the part about driveability and the stock TB. The stock twin 60mm is an area of known restriction. The FRPP twin 65mm unit is plug-n-play. I bought mine, before I changed injectors, added the Gen2R, and added the BAP, etc . I had an idler pulley and a smaller Metco pulley on the stock M122 at the time. I put the FRPP twin 65mm on the car, it idled a little funny on start up the first time, but the PCM took a couple minutes to figure out what was going on, then smoothed right out and was perfect stock like from that point on. The low end torque by the "seat-o-the-pants meter" and throttle response were much improved.

 

[mdoan]

Very true HKusp! On the same note, I’ve also seen others have success with the 67mm when they have a trustworthy shop that knows how to tune those issues out at idle.

When I was initially doing the upgrades like Tom is I didn’t have the dyno option ($ / experience with local shops) so it was easiest for me to live with the restriction. As I’m sure you’d agree, even with the restrictive TB these cars are still absolute hellions when you give them a proper blower compared to stock. I still haven’t felt the need to bolt my 67mm back on and dyno tune it. Now that I have a new clutch perhaps I should look into that...

Maybe the difference between 65mm and 67mm is just enough that the PCM can’t quite adjust by itself without tuning help?

 

[HKusp]

It could be.

 

[Catmonkey]

A lot of tuners don't make any adjustments to the DBW controls on the 65mm and 67mm throttle bodies because they generally run okay leaving things stock. That's not to say you won't have much better drivability and pedal control with the correct parameters dialed into the tune. Adaptive controls can only get you so far. The bigger the departure from stock sizing, the more issues you'll have without tuning. It's a good question to ask your tuner. If he tells you that you don't need changes for the throttle body, you might want to find another tuner. Don't think a bigger throttle body can't be made to work as well as the much smaller 60mm. That's what separates tooners from tuners.

If you have difficulty modulating the throttle to 1,500 rpm in neutral and holding it there rock steady, you're a good candidate for DBW tune adjustments.

With respect to tuning with mods, if you are raising boost pressure, you need a tune. No ifs, ands or buts about it. The stock parameters for load are easily exceeded with more boost, and will put your engine in the danger zone for timing and resultant detonation. Larger MAFs and injectors also require tunes.

OP makes no indication how he intends to pass CA emissions, because none of what has been discussed will pass smog certification, if the car is registered in CA. Most tuners won't even write a tune for a CA car. How much you can get away with on a visual inspection is the unknown variable. Best advice I've seen in this thread is contacting AED to see what you can and can't get away with, and more specifically Shaun at AED Tuning. They will know. I am only speculating based on general knowledge.

Personally, I don't care what OP does, but most of these guys giving advice, with the exception of @SCALILOU, don't deal with stringent emission restrictions in their respective states and probably think C.A.R.B. is something we used before EFI. If your car needs to pass smog, I don't think you're getting good advice. If you're somehow exempt or the car is registered elsewhere, that's another story, and if that's the case excuse my comments and concerns. Otherwise the mods discussed are both common and typical for these cars.

There are ways to accomplish more power and there are 50 state legal supercharger upgrades (kits) out there, but you need to stick with the certified components (and tune) that the executive order pertains to for your model year. None of these kits are equipped with a TVS. Ford Racing had one at one time, but it's been out of production for while. It's not something I'd seek out because power level will pale in comparison to other current options by KB or Whipple. None of the other parts I've seen discussed in this thread have an executive order either.

In any event, good luck with your endeavor.

 

[mdoan]

Good points @Catmonkey. I live in TX, basically the polar opposite of CA emissions.

So are there really no options out there for a CARB compliant blower upgrade? Most of what I’m reading suggests that whether or not a car passes CARB is based largely on visual inspection, i.e., how knowledgeable a particular technician might be about Shelby mods, as opposed to actual emissions readings from the exhaust, etc. Is that accurate?

I’ve spoken with the OP a bit via PM/text and while new to shelby’s, he has lots of experience turning wrenches on other vehicles. I guess worst case scenario he could just keep the stock equipment handy and reinstall every couple years for inspection? Are CARB technicians able to plug into the OBD and detect more hidden mods like injectors or tune? I wouldn’t mind swapping a blower/intake every couple years, but personally I wouldn’t want to do the same for injectors if I could avoid it.

Also, what’s DBW? Related to dashpot settings?

 

[Catmonkey]

DBW = Drive By Wire. Basically everything that controls the throttle body. There are a significant number of parameters that impact DBW, but there are a handful that should be adjusted for a larger throttle body. Dashpot settings have their own section in SCT's tuning software and really have more to do with coast down throttle modulation. You would tune the throttle body before you need to do anything related to dashpot. An untuned throttle body can result in dashpot issues that could vanish once the throttle body is properly tuned. Adding bigger camshafts into the mix adds another level of complexity.

There are CARB compliant supercharger upgrades, but it's an all of nothing thing. AFAIK, Kenne Bell and Whipple are the only games in town with E.O.s. Whatever comes in that kit, MAF, tune, head unit (including pulley diameter) and throttle body are certified as a single unit. You can't mix and match uncertified parts, or use another tune, as it won't be compliant. Manufacturer's spend a lot of money to get parts certified. Just because the Trinity supercharger is certified on the 13-14 GT500, bolting it on a 07-12 would be a violation. Ford Racing even had that disclaimer in their catalog when it was offered. When you see "off-road use" and/or "never to be used on a public highway", it doesn't have an E.O. How sophisticated the equipment is to detect compliance, I couldn't tell you because we don't have to deal with that either... yet. I have a hard time believing most inspectors would notice non-compliant parts, but aftermarket logos and shiny parts would be give-aways. I imagine you get a different level of scrutiny once you fail smog. C.A.R.B or some variation is coming, I just hope it's not in my lifetime.

 

[mdoan]

Thanks for the great info @Catmonkey. Just to clarify, when you say “fail smog” is that a measured exhaust text failure of some sort?

 

[Catmonkey]

I don't know the answer to that. Apparently all CA cars built after 1975 have to get a smog certificate. What happens in that process and the frequency it must be obtained, I don't know. I've heard that their testing equipment can detect changes from the certified tune, but I don't know that for a fact. That would seem to be the easiest way to catch a violator.

 

[biminiLX]

Exceptions for collector vehicle or other loopholes available out there?
If the emissions is going to be a major issue or a dealbreaker then it’s likely better to buy an approved kit now. More expensive but only real way to legally do it. Pay once, cry once?
-J