VMP TVS or 2.9 Whipple...?

2nd2none

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I would love to see the supporting list of mods for that one. Hell for giggles let's just get a built motor and triple hat fuel system and spin the little blower up to 900 rwhp. Where does the TVS max out at?

2010 with VMP TVS kit. Only other mods at the time was 3.73 gears, Roush catback exhaust, Shelby radiator, Shelby heat exchanger and a Reische 170* thermostat. 646 RWHP (17# boost) with a 91 octane, daily driving tune on a Dyno Dynamics. I never had it dyno'd stock but I'm guessing i'm very close to BJs reported 180-200 RWHP gain
 

NightRide

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Is there a chart for Pulley vs. Boost on the 2.9L? Didn't see it on Whipple's site.

Go on evolution perf. and you can select each pulley and it shows boost. Lots of boost to be had with an upper only. What boost are you guys seeing with a 3" pulley? For the FR blower it says 17psi, then on the regular whipple it says 18.5psi. Another interesting find, you can use your stock belt with a 3" or smaller pulley.
 

GT Premi

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I have the 3" pulley on my Whipple. Max boost shown on the graph was 18.9psi.
 

bull3441

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choose the blower that achieves your desired WHP with least amount of boost to do so.
 

Nathan'sTsi

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If you want 700whp it is cheaper to go whipple. It is 4k for the vmp tvs and the 10% lower. 3700 for the whipple and you wont need the lower.
 

dirtyo2000

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2010 with VMP TVS kit. Only other mods at the time was 3.73 gears, Roush catback exhaust, Shelby radiator, Shelby heat exchanger and a Reische 170* thermostat. 646 RWHP (17# boost) with a 91 octane, daily driving tune on a Dyno Dynamics. I never had it dyno'd stock but I'm guessing i'm very close to BJs reported 180-200 RWHP gain

Totally understand and nice setup. Not trying to be funny but you didn't make 700. Now I was directing my statement to the 800 mark. Correct me if I'm wrong (normally any given day I am) doesn't Justin car have aftermarket cams in it. Not sure but I remember reading a thread about it and the car had custom cams and C-16 with about 24lbs of boost for that pull to the 800 mark. Great job but there was nothing spared for that pull.

I look at a lot of people that asks questions like this and never get the full answer on what they are looking for. For instance I look at this lazy OP (no offense guy but there are tons of threads with the answers you seek and problems that have occured, gotta love this forum) he wants to make 700 rwhp. Now I believe (normally wrong) he wants it to be reliable and dependable. They do not go hand in hand with HP but most want to hear that there will never be a problem and it's totally safe.

Now I will make all kinds of assumptions from what I have read, seen, and experienced. 20lbs and 21* of timing is basically dangerous riding around the street on pump gas. You are on the ragged edge of something going wrong at anytime. With that much boost and timing there is no room for error anywhere. Hiccup here or there and it's pretty much over. It can be done, just need to know how safe is it? Great gas at all times and Torco needs to be present in there for a small piece of mind. Now do you want to run Torco in every tank you have to ask yourself.

Spinning the lower blower like that creates heat quick, fast, and in a hurry. Now you will defintely need H/E with fans, larger reservoir, and thermostat trying to keep the thing cool. One highway pull on the stock system should be more then enough to have timing pulled like crazy. I could be wrong, if the stock system can't keep up with the factory blower then one being spun that fast should pretty much have it never recovering afte the first pull.

I notice the 10% pulley is standard practice when it comes to the TVS. I have read problems with the pulley with some and others no problems. So that is at the discretion of the owner. Using a smaller pulley on the crank and the small one on the TVS gives a strong possibility for belt slip. Now we have to add the additional idler or pulleys, whichever way the owner decides he wants to go to avoid that possibily happening. It may or may not happen with some belts from what I have read. Something to think about when watching every dollar.

KB offers a cooling kit type deal that you can get with their blowers. I wish whipple had one. They really don't need it, but it does help equalize the temp of the blower, even picks up a few horses. Great thing is from what I understand helps prolong the life of the blower. Cooler front area for the bearings and I think the seal area. Now if they're keeping theirs cooler and don't spin it fast as VMPs, is there possible failure that could happen in the long run from sustained rpms? Sort of like roadcourse usage or a day on the highway doing pull after pull after pull.

I attached the link to RODFARVA because he showed what the 2.9 was doing. When you say the TVS maxes out at 800, it was in the range of the 2.9. My problems lies here. You are taking a 2.3 blower and making pretty much the same thing a 2.9 is. There is no comparison between the the two blowers. Everyone screams about the TQ of the TVS because your spinning the crap out of it with the lower crank pulley. When applied to the 2.9 he had TQ that the 2.3 can't even compare with. The numbers he put up made me proud with my decision to go whipple because I was almost on the VMP bandwagon. Nothing wrong with it. I just wanted more to work with.

I agree that the TVS will get 700 but there is a lot that goes with that. 21lbs of boost, 21* of timing, possible belt slippage, major HEATSOAK are all areas that need to be addressed. Just food for thought. I give credit, your doing good things with the TVS let's not make it amazing though.

On a side note I read a post long ago up here where WHIPPLE 2.9 owners were swapping for the TVS. I laugh at that everytime my buddy use to roll up to the house. I'd ask him could we swap so I can see what all the TQ is about lol. Put a lower pulley on the 2.9 and you'll have more TQ then you can ever get to the ground without major chassis work being done. Plus side is you have HP to go with it.

I do agree there are a lot of ways to get where your going. I agree that you have a combination that will work and is great for a lot of people. Can we agree that a motor making 700rwhp at 16.5 lbs of boost and 18-19* of timing longevity is greater than said motor taking 21lbs of boost and 21* degree timing with pump gas. I don't think most that are on budgets or drive their cars daily want to figure C-16 or Torco into fuel costs.

OP there is a lot that goes into reliable and dependable power. 700rwhp is not much on this forum because there are some real monsters out there. Tony ( the bull) had me considering compound boost and has pioneered a lot of what we know about these cars. Van went over the 1K mark and inspired a lot of what people do. They are down to earth people that you can chat with and learn a lot.

I'll close and stop wasting time. Find out what you want to do and come up with a budget you are willing to spend. Talk with those that make the HP you are looking for and all that it took. Lots of people will give you a final number but never tell everything that it took. I was lucky and figured out what I wanted from reading many posts on this very forum. I was downrange and started back in 08 reading what many were doing and problems being discussed. By the time I talked with active members I felt I somewhat knew them from all they posted and went through.

Blower threads, there's lots of them. Oil threads, tons of them. From spark plugs, pulleys, CAI, TBs, and fuel systems have all been covered. Read for yourself and don't just take someone's word for it. The more you learn the better decisions you can make about how you want you car to perform, and what you will and will not settle for. Good luck and feel free to ask questions. It's much better then spending money just to find out it won't work, remember nothing is new and someone has already tried it. Don't be the guinea pig if you can help it. I say again, which blower you decide will make the car more enjoyable. Just have to decide is 300-500 worth saving if it will cost somewhere else.:beer:
 

UnleashedBeast

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I agree that the TVS will get 700 but there is a lot that goes with that. 21lbs of boost, 21* of timing, possible belt slippage, major HEATSOAK are all areas that need to be addressed. Just food for thought. I give credit, your doing good things with the TVS let's not make it amazing though.

You are correct.

My VMP TVS setup @ 17.5 PSI, 19-20* timing will only yield about 670-680 rwhp. This is boost with a full 3" exhaust, stock manifolds, no cats. Torque down low hits so hard, I'm destroying M&H 325/50/15 Racemaster drag radials from a 40 mph 2nd gear roll. It sucks actually.

If I were able to buy a larger blower for the steal of a deal slightly used price I got the VMP TVS for, I would have one.
 
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mustang loco

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A lot of good info here,and easy to see that bigger blowers have more potential but if I ever do an upgrade my plan would be keeping the TVS(since already spent on buying it and go with an upgraded block,get stage 3 ported heads/cams and port intake and keep my set up with pulleys,TB,exhaust....and see what the 2.3 could do...
 

dirtyo2000

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You didn't get any AMSOIL on the tires did you lol. See if someone will swap out with you. A while back people were pulling the 2.9s for the TVS
 

VNMOUS1

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You are correct.

My VMP TVS setup @ 17.5 PSI, 19-20* timing will only yield about 670-680 rwhp. This is boost with a full 3" exhaust, stock manifolds, no cats. Torque down low hits so hard, I'm destroying M&H 325/50/15 Racemaster drag radials from a 40 mph 2nd gear roll. It sucks actually.

If I were able to buy a larger blower for the steal of a deal slightly used price I got the VMP TVS for, I would have one.

Thus the fallacy that surrounds "goal horsepower" numbers. 650 seems to be the true street number for those that spend 95 percent of their driving on the street, with moldy modified suspensions and even the most aggressive street tires.

Hey, different strokes and that's why there are many great options for our cars.

Bj

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UnleashedBeast

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Thus the fallacy that surrounds "goal horsepower" numbers. 650 seems to be the true street number for those that spend 95 percent of their driving on the street, with moldy modified suspensions and even the most aggressive street tires.

Hey, different strokes and that's why there are many great options for our cars.

Update:

Discovered that two of the connections for my 3.5 bar boost sensor was dry rotting, allowing a leak. Replaced all the bad stuff.

I now see 18 PSI at WOT. Stock lower, 2.385" upper
 

phinhead34

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This thread has great information. What Dirty said makes alot of sense, great explanation of the difference in the bigger blower. No one can argue that.
 

1320 Junkie

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im one of the biggest 2.3 TVS fans there are and i was the most noticeable 2.9 whipple ship jumpers with my 04 cobra vert. while its not a shelby numbers are numbers...i made 681/642 with a vmp tvs @ 21 psi 19* timing...with the same mods on the 2.9 whipple i made 681/601...just saying. Pump gas 19#'s tvs made 651/590, 2.9 made 666/572.
 

VNMOUS1

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im one of the biggest 2.3 TVS fans there are and i was the most noticeable 2.9 whipple ship jumpers with my 04 cobra vert. while its not a shelby numbers are numbers...i made 681/642 with a vmp tvs @ 21 psi 19* timing...with the same mods on the 2.9 whipple i made 681/601...just saying. Pump gas 19#'s tvs made 651/590, 2.9 made 666/572.

The 5.4 makes a difference.

The VMP tvs will whoop the 2.9 100% of the time when we're talking bottom end. So for 90% of drivers, the availability of that low, fat torque curve will be preferred on a head to head. On a further modded car the peak hp between the two is minimal. For performance, cost, fitment and value you'll thank yourself for going vmp tvs. If you truly want "bigger", the Whipple 2.9 isn't a big enough step.

Want big? Buy big. Want efficiency in both performance and dough? Www. VMP Tuning. Com

Tip your bartenders and waitresses.

Bj

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
 

1320 Junkie

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The 5.4 makes a difference.

The VMP tvs will whoop the 2.9 100% of the time when we're talking bottom end. So for 90% of drivers, the availability of that low, fat torque curve will be preferred on a head to head. On a further modded car the peak hp between the two is minimal. For performance, cost, fitment and value you'll thank yourself for going vmp tvs. If you truly want "bigger", the Whipple 2.9 isn't a big enough step.

Want big? Buy big. Want efficiency in both performance and dough? Www. VMP Tuning. Com

Tip your bartenders and waitresses.

Bj

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

Agreed, thats why my shop is a VMP authorized dealer and installer, lol.
 

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