Whipple/pulley size HELP!!!

[whiplash306]

Hey guys....I recently ordered a Whipple 2.3 gen II for my '04 Cobra.

Supporting mods include:
-AFCO heat exchanger
-TF I/C coolant reservoir
-EVENFLOW head cooling mod
-60 lb injectors
-JLT High Boost cai
-MAFia
-Ford GT pumps x 2
-SCT X3 Tuner
-Stage II FPDM
-BF 4 piece idler kit, and
-3" Bassani exhaust, with catted X-pipe all the way out past the stock manifolds/headers

Question is this. After speaking with Lethal, and in reading their pulley reference guide on their site ( Whipple 03-04 Cobra Supercharger Pulley **FREE SHIPPING** [WHIPPLE-PULLEY] : Lethal Performance, Performance parts for Ford Mustangs ), I decided to get the 2.75" upper pulley and run a stock lower for a total boost production advertised at 19 lbs. After asking what gas I had available (93 octane), Whipple said that they have "plenty" of guys running around on 2.75" upper and stock lower combos with ZERO problems. However, after doing more and more reading on this site, it seems lots of guys are seeing higher than 19 lbs with this pulley. I'm not sure if those guys are basing that boost off their car's boost gauge or getting true boost levels while tuning, but it's got me a bit nervous. I'm a bit weary of spinning the blower too fast, thus creating too much heat and causing the engine to pull timing....which MIGHT yield lower hp/tq #'s than if I were to go with the smaller 3.00" upper pulley, stock lower and run more timing.

For the record, I have NO INTENTION of running anything other than 93 octane fuel. I wanna be able to pull up to the gas station, "fill 'er up" and drive away.

If anyone has any input or thoughts, I'd GREATLY appreciate it! Thanks

 

[PWORLDSTANG]

I responded to your PM Jarod. Was it Lethal or Whipple that told you running that much boost on pump gas was ok?

Either way, 21lbs is not - which is where you will be at with a 2.75'' pulley. Some guys (few) do it, but I'm not sure why some risk it. If you want to push the envelope with boost on your pump 93 octane, a 3.00'' pulley to give you 19lbs would be max.

Most just run a safe 17lbs and be done with it. The Whipple is such a jump from an Eaton that you'll still be happy with 17lbs.

 

[whiplash306]

I responded to your PM Jarod. Was it Lethal or Whipple that told you running that much boost on pump gas was ok?

Either way, 21lbs is not - which is where you will be at with a 2.75'' pulley. Some guys (few) do it, but I'm not sure why some risk it. If you want to push the envelope with boost on your pump 93 octane, a 3.00'' pulley to give you 19lbs would be max.

Most just run a safe 17lbs and be done with it. The Whipple is such a jump from an Eaton that you'll still be happy with 17lbs.

Yes you did! Thank you VERY much for that very detailed response. Things make a bit more sense to me now!

To answer your question, it was Whipple who directly told me that they had/have "numerous" people running around on that 2.75" pulley on 93 octane safely. :??: It's also VERY, VERY FRUSTRATING that Lethal's pulley vs boost guide very clearly claims 19 lbs with the 2.75" pulley when used with the stock crank pulley. So, is this false advertising? I can't imagine a reason behind it, so I imagine it's just a mistake???

Either way, as asked in my PM to you, in looking for 590-610 rwhp safely, do you feel the 3.00" or 3.25" pulley would be my best bet??

Thanks so much for your time and input! It is invaluable to me as I feel horribly ignorant when it comes to this stuff and desperately do not want to make a costly mistake as a result of my ignorance! :beer:

 

[SVT03Chris]

I felt a difference just from going from my eaton to only 15psi and 14* of Timing on my KB

 

[PWORLDSTANG]

Yes you did! Thank you VERY much for that very detailed response. Things make a bit more sense to me now!

To answer your question, it was Whipple who directly told me that they had/have "numerous" people running around on that 2.75" pulley on 93 octane safely. :??: It's also VERY, VERY FRUSTRATING that Lethal's pulley vs boost guide very clearly claims 19 lbs with the 2.75" pulley when used with the stock crank pulley. So, is this false advertising? I can't imagine a reason behind it, so I imagine it's just a mistake???

Either way, as asked in my PM to you, in looking for 590-600 rwhp safely, do you feel the 3.00" or 3.25" pulley would be my best bet??

Thanks so much for your time and input! It is invaluable to me as I feel horribly ignorant when it comes to this stuff and desperately do not want to make a costly mistake as a result of my ignorance! :beer:

I disagree with what Whipple told you. Yes, some guys do it and get away with it. But IMO, it's not safe nor ideal for the engine longevity wise. As I mentioned in the PM, you can only decrease timing so much. Decreasing timing (low enough) has negative effects.

Also, I wouldn't consider the boost reference chart on Lethal's page false advertising. It's likely that Whipple just never made an updated chart, therefore Lethal doesn't have one. It is the boost chart from Whipple that references the Gen I 2.3L, which are no longer available. Now that the Whipple 2.3L's have Gen II rotor profiling, each pulley size will produce an additional 2 pounds of boost over what is listed on that chart

For the power level you're looking to be at, the 3.00'' pulley should for sure get you there, and the 3.25'' pulley should get you there or within a few HP. Expect 580-600RWHP on the 3.25'' pulley, and 590-610RWHP with the 3.00'' pulley. The 3.25'' pulley will be safer and will feel better at part throttle and because of more timing being able to be ran. However at WOT, a 3.00 pulley > a 3.25'' pulley. Lol

If it were me, I'd run the 3.25'' pulley. But you should also talk to your tuner and see what he suggests as he'll be the one tuning the car. He may feel 19lbs of boost on pump gas is too much.

 

[04sleeper]

Also, I wouldn't consider the boost reference chart on Lethal's page false advertising. It's likely that Whipple just never made an updated chart, therefore Lethal doesn't have one. It is the boost chart from Whipple that references the Gen I 2.3L, which are no longer available. Now that the Whipple 2.3L's have Gen II rotor profiling, each pulley size will produce an additional 2 pounds of boost over what is listed on that chart

^^^^^^This.

Whipple has not updated their chart to reflect the Gen2's. (I just checked Whipple's website) The chart was made with the Gen1's like PWORLDSTANG mentioned.

Lethal is just going off of Whipples website. I agree it needs to be changed but I don't think Lethal is to blame here.

 

[CAM09]

21lbs is not - which is where you will be at with a 2.75'' pulley. Some guys (few) do it, but i'm not sure why some risk it. If you want to push the envelope with boost on your pump 93 octane, a 3.00'' pulley to give you 19lbs would be max.

Most just run a safe 17lbs and be done with it. The whipple is such a jump from an eaton that you'll still be happy with 17lbs.

+1

 

[whiplash306]

Thanks for all the input guys. I guess I should clarify my statement reference the question of possible false advertising. I do NOT hold ANY malice towards Lethal. They were GREAT to deal with and took me at my word with price claims from other dealers when they matched those claims. I FULLY intend to continue doing business with Lethal. My statement would have been more appropriate had I asked if it was inadvertent (unintentional) false advertisement....in-other-words, not purposeful. However, I will be sure to bring to their attention the issue of their incorrect pulley reference chart when a consumer is considering the Gen II Whipples.

So, just to further clarify, are most here thinking that 17 lbs is the most I should go on 93 octane? 19 lbs, even though probably OK, is still a bit too much???? I was REALLY wanting to see that "600" mark. But pride aside, I'm more interested in longevity and listening to those who obviously have more knowledge than myself.

Thanks again! The guidance is invaluable! Up for any more questions?

 

[whiplash306]

I felt a difference just from going from my eaton to only 15psi and 14* of Timing on my KB

Did you go from a ported and pullied Eaton to a KB 2.2 at 15 lbs or did you go from a bone stock blower (like I have) to the KB??? I'm really hoping for that NECK SNAPPING difference.

 

[04sleeper]

If your car is properly tuned you can safely run 19 psi. When I was running that combo I tuned for 11.4 A/F and 17 Degrees Timing max.

I would not be too concerned with the magic "600" because there are a lot of different variables when it comes to dyno's.

I would also recommend running a colder plug @ 19 psi. I run NGK BR7EF's and gap them @ .026-.028.

 

[03Snake04]

i am in the same boat now searching for which pulley i want to order. i was wanting to run 17lbs, and up to this point it seems like i am now hearing a 3.0 will net 18-19lbs. and that a 3.1 or 3.25 would be a better decision... errrr:shrug:

 

[whiplash306]

i am in the same boat now searching for which pulley i want to order. i was wanting to run 17lbs, and up to this point it seems like i am now hearing a 3.0 will net 18-19lbs. and that a 3.1 or 3.25 would be a better decision... errrr:shrug:

Frustrating, huh? Ha! Stay tuned to this thread. I think we've got some good points from experienced individuals.

 

[KILRSVT]

i apoligize i dont mean to thread jack......but what kind of power should you expect with a 3.5 pully on a genII whipple with a 100mm accufab tb..stock lower pully. 60 pds..(adequate fuel system)... 550range??

 

[03Snake04]

i apoligize i dont mean to thread jack......but what kind of power should you expect with a 3.5 pully on a genII whipple with a 100mm accufab tb..stock lower pully. 60 pds..(adequate fuel system)... 550range??

probably less with the stock 3.5 upper .. 530ish is common unless youre talking about alot of timing and possible longtubes

 

[Jomo1994z71]

I'd stick with 17LBS you will be happy

 

[03Snake04]

I'd stick with 17LBS you will be happy

but which upper pulley size are gen2 whipple owners using to see this "without" longtubes, which could drop it down to this level?

i was under the impression until today that a 3.0" netted 17 lbs .. now im seeing thats is the old gen1 charts? that a 3.0" upper on a new gen2 design will net closer to 19?

 

[whiplash306]

After talking with some people, it seems the 3.25" is the way to go for 17 lbs. Plus, then you can load 'er down with timing and have a SUPER responsive street car that runs GREAT on pump gas!!! That's what I'll be ordering tomorrow when I send my 2.75" pulley back......

 

[Hkaiser83]

With longtubes and a 3.00" pulley my Gen 2 Whipple see's 18lbs at WOT. She eats it up too! :rockon:

 

[whiplash306]

2.75" sent back....3.25" ordered in return. Lethal was again GREAT...and absolute pleasure to deal with. Oh, and PPRV delete ordered. It would be just my luck that I'd get the car on the dyno and be unable to tune out the hesitation.....

 

[Buds03Cobra]

My old 03 cobra , gen1 3.0 pulley. 17.5 psi 590RWH pump gas

The new 03 Cobra. GenII 2.85 pulley. 20PSI ,pump gas 18.5 deg timming,
630RWH No problems, and its not a daily driver. Car has 7,700 miles on it.
Tune it right with 20 and it will be just fine. Tune it wrong with 17 and it will blow up.
I hope you get my point.
and as it makes more heat it pulls the timing at any boost.