Why not put a blower on?

[tmac1337]

oooops

 

[2Marauders]

Why not put a blower on a shop's own MM if that shop is in the business of selling its own respective kit?

How can a person answer the question of "Supercharger Removal" (MM.net BillyG thread) when said person has never installed his own kit on his own car?

Yet experiments with everyone else's money?


"Why is my answer, why would you take parts off the car and try and sell the used parts, if any of us decided to sell our cars we would never get the full investment we have in our cars, we have invested our time and money our hopes and dreams.You can not put a dollar value on this. I also feel the car would be worth more with the blower on it, because that makes the car unique, but then again the Marauder is unique all on its own any way.

As much passion as we have seen on this site and the countless SC comparison threads and a lot of those have gone up in flames, why would some one consider taking the blower off the car, unless there are other issues behind this, again I have no idea why, what is a used SC worth who wants a used drive shaft or 410 gears."

This is a direct quote from said person. Go back and look quick as it will probably be removed soon.

Where is said vendors hopes and dreams in HIS own car?

Vendor has never invested time and money, it's the money and paid for time of customers during experimentation. How come the time and experimentation was not done on HIS car first, then once everything was worked out the kit could be sold?

If the car is worth more with blower on it how come said vendor does not take a kit off the shelf and install it on his own car? (3 years later!)

Why did vendor answer this question? One cannot talk about Supercharger Removal when One has not installed one on own car in the first place.

What are the issues behind this? Is said vendors kit and tuning so problematic that a kit is not destined for his own car?


Makes prospective customers wonder........doesn't it!

Here we go again... The most malcontent person on the planet... Everything he posts sounds the same... Blah, blah, blah...

 

[Tallboy]

Why not put a blower on a shop's own MM if that shop is in the business of selling its own respective kit?

How can a person answer the question of "Supercharger Removal" (MM.net BillyG thread) when said person has never installed his own kit on his own car?

Yet experiments with everyone else's money?


"Why is my answer, why would you take parts off the car and try and sell the used parts, if any of us decided to sell our cars we would never get the full investment we have in our cars, we have invested our time and money our hopes and dreams.You can not put a dollar value on this. I also feel the car would be worth more with the blower on it, because that makes the car unique, but then again the Marauder is unique all on its own any way.

As much passion as we have seen on this site and the countless SC comparison threads and a lot of those have gone up in flames, why would some one consider taking the blower off the car, unless there are other issues behind this, again I have no idea why, what is a used SC worth who wants a used drive shaft or 410 gears."

This is a direct quote from said person. Go back and look quick as it will probably be removed soon.

Where is said vendors hopes and dreams in HIS own car?

Vendor has never invested time and money, it's the money and paid for time of customers during experimentation. How come the time and experimentation was not done on HIS car first, then once everything was worked out the kit could be sold?

If the car is worth more with blower on it how come said vendor does not take a kit off the shelf and install it on his own car? (3 years later!)

Why did vendor answer this question? One cannot talk about Supercharger Removal when One has not installed one on own car in the first place.

What are the issues behind this? Is said vendors kit and tuning so problematic that a kit is not destined for his own car?


Makes prospective customers wonder........doesn't it!

I could not agree with you more! I would NEVER buy a blower from a vendor who did not OWN and DRIVE a Supercharged Marauder of his own! GREAT ADVICE!!! :beer:

 

[DJP]

Also makes one wonder why the owner of .net no longer owns a MARAUDER. Birds of a feather they say......

I love my MARAUDER. It's a keeper.

 

[MENACE]

Also makes one wonder why the owner of .net no longer owns a MARAUDER.

I heard he couldn't handle the power once he got it Trilogized. :kaboom:

 

[MENACE]

:-D :lol1:

 

[DJP]

I heard he couldn't handle the power once he got it Trilogized. :kaboom:

Too much power? Nah. A simple DR tune would've taken care of that problem.

 

[tmac1337]

Here we go again... The most malcontent person on the planet... Everything he posts sounds the same... Blah, blah, blah...

Ooooops

 

[SergntMac]

Instead of doing personal attacks when the truth is unimpeachable, why don't you explain to us why you think a blower has never been installed? And please don't give the BS excuse that the car is loaned to customers (which would imply if a blower was installed on the loaner he might sell more).

What do I win with the correct answer?

I suppose Dennis doesn't need to supercharge his Marauder because he has his 11 second MKVIII to tool around in, but I'm just guessing, no quotes. If it were me, that car would quench my thirst very effectively. BTW...If the point you (and others) wish to make here, Tim, is willingness to take personal financial risk when experimenting, consider this 411.

Kenny Brown did not own his experimental Marauder, and he didn't spend his own money on the experiment. It was owner financed.

Jerry Barnes does not own his two experimental Marauders. I've heard two explanations for this, 1) corporate ownership and business expenses, and 2) delivery from Ford for one dollar each. It's not important which is true, other than to illustrate that the risk of building an experimental car wasn't as heroic in this case. Likewise, Lidio's involvement was as a wrench, he didn't become a Marauder owner himself until much later.

Brad Bockstance/Pande's Automotive did not own either of their two experimental ProCharger Marauders. Once again, financed by owners, and both are dead now...The Marauders I mean, not the customers...That I know of anyway...I mean...In their line of work, you never know...Nevermind...

Yep...Greg may be the only vendor who experimented with his own car, and there's nothing wrong with this, nothing at all. However, within the small sample of experiments we're working with here, Greg is one out of five, and that's 20 percent. So, approximately 20 percent of the scientists conducting experiments in supercharging Marauders, do so with their own personal finances at risk.

If you want to expand the scope, PTS experimented with two Marauders and turbocharging...Right, you guessed it...Customer's cars.

So, what did I win! Okay, nevermind.

 

[MI2QWK4U]

Jerry Barnes does not own his two experimental Marauders. I've heard two explanations for this, 1) corporate ownership and business expenses, and 2) delivery from Ford for one dollar each. It's not important which is true, other than to illustrate that the risk of building an experimental car wasn't as heroic in this case.

Likewise, Lidio's involvement was as a wrench, he didn't become a Marauder owner himself until much later.

Mac, Jerry owns both Marauders, It was a great risk because of what he had to do with the cars. Ford doesnt just do Dollar car sales for fun. Jerry had to document extensively the project and produce results or else. Talk about being under the microscope. Fords interest in Trilogy was obvious, the SEMA S55 prototype Marauder done up by Ford originally with a Eaton roots style blower. It is also obvious and well known that Ford prefers the eatons on mustangs and lightnings in the past. I believe there was some speculation on Fords part that they may actually adopt and produce Marauders with Trilogy's supercharged system from the factory. Unfortunately the Marauder program was short lived and was discontinued, it it wasnt, you may very well have seen an Eaton supercharged Marauder from the factory. Recent events like the drag strip day with the Ford GT and the meeting this week with Ford Racing, and SVT engineers to show them the Eaton setup in deptsh shows me that there MUST be some type of interest in the Eaton setup on several Ford platforms. Remember, Ford shares its CAD and other engineering materials with its suppliers, what Trilogy had to do was return the data to Ford in much the same manner as they worked on the setup. Trust me, there was a lot of pressure and a lot at stake.

As for Lidio, Lidio bought a Marauder the first chance he could, before many members of MM.net were even members. He has historically purchased vehicles to work on and mod instead of trying things on customers own vehicles. This goes as far back as I can recall, and I have known Lid since he opened his doors over 15 years ago. This should be obvious, he has pioneered so much for us on his own Marauder! Things people wondered about, dreamed about, but lacked the balls to do on their own car, well lidio didnt lack the balls and just did it. Lets see....the Marauder, the Mach 1, the 05 Mustang GT, etc etc. I suggest you know about something before you speculate on it. The man owns the cars he supplies mods for.

Mac, I mean no disrespect, but do you ever think that maybe there is part of a story you are not familiar with. You will notice I ONLY state things about situations and people I have personal hands on knowledge of. With all due respect, you were wrong about Jerry and Lidio. You will also notice I didnt mention Greg, Brad, Kenny, or Dennis, do you know why? Because I dont know anything about them with reguards to this topic. I hope you can respect what I just said.
Dave

 

[tmac1337]

I suppose Dennis doesn't need to supercharge his Marauder because he has his 11 second MKVIII to tool around in, but I'm just guessing, no quotes. If it were me, that car would quench my thirst very effectively.

Kenny Brown did not own his experimental Marauder, and he didn't spend his own money on the experiment. It was owner financed.

Jerry Barnes does not own his two experimental Marauders. I've heard two explanations for this, 1) corporate ownership and business expenses, and 2) delivery from Ford for one dollar each. It's not important which is true, other than to illustrate that the risk of building an experimental car wasn't as heroic in this case. Likewise, Lidio's involvement was as a wrench, he didn't become a Marauder owner himself until much later.

Brad Bockstance/Pande's Automotive did not own either of their two experimental ProCharger Marauders. Once again, financed by owners, and both are dead now...The Marauders I mean, not the customers...That I know of anyway...I mean...In their line of work, you never know...Nevermind...

Yep...Greg may be the only vendor who experimented with his own car, and there's nothing wrong with this, nothing at all. However, within the small sample of experiments we're working with here, Greg is one out of five, and that's 20 percent. So, approximately 20 percent of the scientists conducting experiments in supercharging Marauders, do so with their own personal finances at risk.

Oooops

 

[DEFYANT]

*yawn*

 

[bigdogjim]

Now stop that!

*yawn*

Hey there will be a "test" at Hooters in New York :fart:

So pay attention and take lots of notes :read:

 

[SergntMac]

Mac, Jerry owns both Marauders...You will notice I ONLY state things about situations and people I have personal hands on knowledge of. With all due respect, you were wrong about Jerry and Lidio.

Ownership is a technicality of concern to T-Mac, though he says now that he doesn't care who owns the Trilogy cars, as long as it's not a customer. All I was trying to show, was that four out of five times, experimental cars were owned by customers, and the personal financial risk is all theirs. Though it's not a question anymore, I believe both cars are owned by the corporation Trilogy, thus expendable to some degree should an experiment fail. Jerry's personal finances are not at risk during development, as they were at risk for Greg during the ProCharger build, those two clowns at Pande's, and of course, Bill Karrow and later, me. When Jerry lost the engine in #1, the decision he faced was 1) how to announce it to us, and 2) planning the rebuild. For any of us in this situation, our #1 concern would be how we are going to finance the repairs.

Furthermore, I stated Lidio became an owner "some time later", nothing more, yet you call me a liar. Well, I made this statement based on posts at the MM.Net, specifically, a post In March of 2003, when Lidio joins membership already involved with Trilogy to the point where he was ready for first test runs at the track. The following September, after our first National meet in Texas, he announced buying his own Marauder. Clearly, this is some time later, and not fabrication.

I agree that you are much closer to the hub and have eye/hand contact with most things Trilogy, to the point that as long as two years ago, I considered you a Trilogy employee. This helps remind me that your insight is spot-on, but you spoil it with wild azzed shooting from the hip, as you have here.

Dave...None of us know anything we do not read from the MM.Net. What I stated here are facts posted by Jerry and Lidio themselves, including the "car for a dollar" story (which I still do not believe), posted by Jerry Barnes. Everything I've said here is posted at the MM.Net., and by the gentlemen mentioned. You may have the inside track on things, but be sure to read up on what we read before you call someone out. It might help you stop calling the wrong party a liar.

With all due respect Mac, if a vendor wants to sell kits, there should be a car available to prospective customers to drive, instead of utilizing customers cars without their knowledge.

I agree Tim, "without knowledge" is insulting, but your question was about having a demo car, right? This idea is lacking lateral support, four out of the five developers I mentioned, do not have such cars. Tire Rack doesn't supply test drives on tires, do they? Summit, Jegs, Jackson, Kenny Belle, Ford Racing, ETAL all sell complete supercharger kits, and none of them can accommodate a test drive, so, I suppose we (as a group) have been fairly lucky to be entertained by the vendors who have accomplished exactly this.

Who was the owner? How much was paid? How long was the development process? How many miles did the car have on it when it was returned?

Like I just said to Dave ^ there, you need to read some history at the MM.Net., especially what took place before you joined up. However, owner was Bill Karrow (MENSRAE), the money is his business, development began in July of '02 and ended 2 Nov. 02, mileage 16,500 Why? LOL...WTF do you care?

Sorry Mac, but I find this part amusing. A certain vendor likes to tell people on the phone that the Procharger kit's design and setup was stolen from him by Greg, yet it was Greg's car in KS that was being experimented on and had a kit installed! If it is true said vendor did design the kit, how could he do so when he never even saw the car or had a kit on a car of his own?

I suppose you have a point here, a point I am missing, but please don't explain it either. I'm only concerned with things I read on the Internet. Anything said in a phone call, is the business of the folks making the call. I don't recall reading anything about this myself, so, I suppose I need to do some research too.

Since you changed the questions, Tim, I guess I won't get any prize...Dayum.

 

[MI2QWK4U]

Mac, I did not, nor am I now calling you a liar. I just said that you may not have all the facts or information about a topic you are commenting on. I dont know how to be much more civil than I have been to you, but you are pushing it with your replies. I wont speak to things I dont know about, as I said above, maybe that might be a good idea for you. What I said about Jerry and Lidio is fact. Dont preach about who has been on MM.net longer and history, I was there Mac, you werent, perhaps you should do your research better. You wouldnt have to be do defensive if you didnt talk about stuff you arent familiar with.

 

[SergntMac]

This site may be a "darkside" for a few folks, but it's not that for me. I don't need a special site to speak my mind, and you should expect me to be the same SergntMac here (if I decide to stay) as I am on the MM.Net.

I'm not going to dog this out with you, Dave, the initial question has been answered and this aftermath is obviously a very personal issue for you. I'll respect that, I'm not a fan of public smackdowns.

You also suggest that I do not know the full story, and I should do better research. There's no way I'll ever know the full story, I'm 400 miles west of the writers. However, I have done my research to the exact same limits any MM.Net member can accomplish, if they wish to do so. What I found in my research is credible, and useful in making my point. Yes, Dave, there is most likely "more to the story" in some cases, but lacking this depth does not dilute or erode the quality of what is known.

I included Jerry Barnes and Lidio in a discussion because they figure in that discussion, and I did so without any insult, or, slam against them. I answered T-Mac's question about test cars, and without painting Jerry Barnes or Lidio in any negative light. Honestly, I do not understand why you're upset by this, but you seem upset. You should know that I admire both men very much for their individual and collective accomplishments, and my reference to them is based on what they have stated themselves in public forums. If this upsets you, I guess you'll have to learn to deal with that because I will mention them both again, when their public accomplishments figure in the topic at hand.

You say I am wrong, Dave, but I can't be wrong unless Jerry Barnes and Lidio are wrong too. So, if need be, I'll include a link where folks can read their remarks directly, rather than allow them to wonder if I'm being wrong again. I hope you find this agreeable.

 

[STLR FN]

Watching this now is like racing in special olympics, no matter the outcome...

 

[SergntMac]

Watching this now is like racing in special olympics, no matter the outcome...

Isn't this exactly (and only) why any of us present, or, former Marauder.net folks post here? Umm...My felllow refugee?

Don't tell me you really expect to break out and discover a new frontier, a new planet in the solar system, with a new culture...OMG!

Trekie, eh?

 

[MarauderMike]

Just to clarify........

If you have a doubt whether Ford does provide cars for $1 to vendors for development and research purposes, he is just one example that showed up on a quick Google search, I didn't scroll down the screen any further to find any additional. Didn't need to.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000750063400/

 

[tmac1337]

Ownership is a technicality of concern to T-Mac, though he says now that he doesn't care who owns the Trilogy cars, as long as it's not a customer.

I agree Tim, "without knowledge" is insulting, but your question was about having a demo car, right? This idea is lacking lateral support, four out of the five developers I mentioned, do not have such cars. Tire Rack doesn't supply test drives on tires, do they? Summit, Jegs, Jackson, Kenny Belle, Ford Racing, ETAL all sell complete supercharger kits, and none of them can accommodate a test drive, so, I suppose we (as a group) have been fairly lucky to be entertained by the vendors who have accomplished exactly this.

.

Oooops