Why not put a blower on?

[tmac1337]

BTW...If the point you (and others) wish to make here, Tim, is willingness to take personal financial risk when experimenting, consider this 411.

Sorry Mac, it was you who turned the main question of "Why Not?" into a personal financial risk question during experimentation. I asked other questions afterward while digesting your longs posts relating to your new question and topic divergence.

And from what I have read the answer to your new question at least in regards to one vendor is that he takes NO personal risk himself, not even with kits on the shelf and MM in the driveway, but does so with customer cars, which we have seen now in other threads to be very costly to said customers.

 

[STLR FN]

Isn't this exactly (and only) why any of us present, or, former Marauder.net folks post here? Umm...My felllow refugee?I suppose. I'm just having fun watching. I understand Tmac's gripe but as others have said maybe it's time to let it go. JMO

Don't tell me you really expect to break out and discover a new frontier, a new planet in the solar system, with a new culture...OMG!

Trekie, eh?]Yeah I suppose I'm a Trekkie, not a diehard that can tell you everything about the show but in some eyes the fact that one watches it is enough to make you a Trekkie

Back to the originally scheduled program....

 

[DJP]

Isn't this exactly (and only) why any of us present, or, former Marauder.net folks post here? Umm...My felllow refugee?

Don't tell me you really expect to break out and discover a new frontier, a new planet in the solar system, with a new culture...OMG!

Trekie, eh?

I don't know where you're going with on this Sarge, but it sounds like you're taking a negative shot on the members who post here, and taking a shot on our forum as a whole, collectively.

I am not a special olympian, refugee, or trekkie. I am neither a spokesman for others or a conveyer of misinformation. If you seek the right culture, as do I, you need not venture to planetary extremes,......You just need to take the right exit. It's local. Call it SVTPerformance.COM. :thumbsup:

 

[SergntMac]

If you have a doubt whether Ford does provide cars for $1 to vendors for development and research purposes, he is just one example that showed up on a quick Google search, I didn't scroll down the screen any further to find any additional. Didn't need to.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/1234000750063400/

Thanks for the link, my doubt has been erased.

This is not really an important point in this discussion, is it?

 

[SergntMac]

Mac, the vendor in question had his own car from the outset. Why was there not a kit installed in the first place, original question? An exhilarating joy ride in an old M8 that is not a MM is a BS answer, no disrespect.

No disrespect taken, Tim, or, meant in my reply.

We can quit kidding each other here too, Tim, about who we support, and who we would like to see crash in flames. Let's both keep it civil, and we'll be fine, K? Nature will take it's course here, it's called "the food chain".

"Onset"...You mean before a specific customer came his way? I don't think the history supports this contention. Nonetheless, if one vendor chose to invest in a Marauder for his own personal use, well, it's happened before.

Wes Chain owns his own Marauder. Paul, of Paul's High Performance ('02/'03 vendor) also owns his own Marauder, the "Street Stalker", but he's parked that Marauder on a private street now. Yes, ownership happens, but it's not a standard to meet...Yet.

Whether the Trilogy demo cars cost Trilogy 1 dollar, or, Trilogy paid "sticker" for each car doesn't really matter to me, because the Trilogy cars are not customer owned cars nor one man's personal property. Perhaps they are assets of FMC, assets of Trilogy Motorsports, or, it's parent, Trilogy International, but they are not privately owned, which was my only point when I mentioned them in reply. I'm sorry this point distracted us from the matter at hand, I'm not focused on any Trilogy business.

My point goes on to illustrate that the only automotive company doing R&D on supercharger kits for Marauders that can offer up a demo car, is a company that has full time control of the test car. Therefore, when you ask "when there's a kit on a shelf, and a Marauder in the driveway, why isn't there a demo car"? and my answer is...

This standard has not been set. Trilogy has two demo cars. The rest of the vendors I mentioned as "explorers" in a new world of supercharging the Marauder, did not have, or, use demo cars. ProCharger almost had a demo car with Greg's Marauder, but he sold it to a film company and it's no longer available to any of us today. Did anyone get to test drive it before it was sold? I cannot say I know for sure, one way or another.

So, as it stands now, only 1 out of 5 supercharger developers/vendors at the MM.Net offer demo cars, and I conclude that "a demo car" is not an industry standard...Yet. Moreover, lateral examples seem to indicate that a demo car will never achieve the status of "industry standard" or, expected behavior.

Among the vendors we have at the MM.Net, TireRack has no demo cars for any of the volumes of tires, or, racing accessories that TireRack wants to sell us. Wes Chain/Innovative Interceptors does not offer any test drives of his wares. Todd/TCE does not offer any samples of his brake products, likewise JLT induction kits, Metco does not offer any of their induction kits, control arms, driveshaft loops, Naake's QA-1 coil overs and shocks are not available for testing, likewise Kook's headers, Stainless Works headers, and any of the half dozen muffler companies mentioned in posts ad nauseum, Hell, the best you can ever get for your Marauder, isn't even a vendor with us! But, we still hear about his "Grand" shop, without a problem.

And this is just a quick analysis of what's on the MM.Net site alone, what's approved for posting, vendor status, and not. Expand this discussion to encompass contemporary business that does not care one bit about Marauders, such as Summit Racing, Jegs, Ford Racing, and where, or, where, are the test cars?

Tim?

Companies who sell high performance mods for specific automobiles, do not offer demo cars for testing, or, point of sale impact. Therefore, once you you render the question as I have, foundation other than one lone supposition, is absent. Furthermore, pause to examine what we are talking about when we mention the "R&D" pastel of this question.

Installing an Eaton based roots supercharger on the Marauder was quite an engineering accomplishment. Very special components had to be researched, designed, alpha-produced, beta-tested, certified durable, and tuned to perfection. I like the words "from scratch" here, they cover all of this crap for me.

Any business undertaking this serious of a development project is better served owning a prototype. Anytime in this development process that you "turn the next card", all of it could go bust, and Trilogy earns my compliments for enduring the turn of the card, and keeping it all under wraps until it was ready to be released to the public. This was my earlier point too, that we learned nothing of this project until Lidio was ready for the "maiden voyage" at a race track near him.

However, when we change the supercharger style from a positive displacement roots, to a centrifugal, the playing field is not litered with technology mines. The Mustang, and it's various drivetrains, span 40 years of research and development, thus there are half a dozen centrifugal blower kits on the shelves to pick from. The conversion R&D is minimal, in comparasion. The oldest (in my memory) is a Paxton kit for the first generation Mustang, but there are more today. Vortech, ProCharger, Paxton/Novi 2000, AED, and so on.

The R&D behind making these kits fit any particular automobile, is simply a matter of brackets, belts and hoses, because all of them do the same thing the same way. They force air and fuel into the factory intake. The build is less complicated, requires no internal mods. The car can be tuned aggressively, or, moderately, your choice is water to air, or, air to air. Even this choice, was designed long before the Marauder was a word we could use in a sentence.

There are other issues today too, yes. Boost, tuning, timing, tranny control and so on. But, when you consider the challenge to the designer, it's more a matter of measuring the stretch of stuff to fit the Marauder engine bay, not a matter of closing the OEM hood.

Kudos to Trilogy, but if we're talking centrifugal kits, Reinhart couldn't steal anything from Greg that Greg didn't steal from Kenny Brown.

The honors for the very first ever supercharged Marauder anywhere in the world, belongs to Bill Karrow (MENSREA), and Kenny Brown. They broke the ground, stretched the hoses, pulled pulleys, belted belts, and fabricated brackets. If these two men had not done what they did, none of us would have anything to bicker about today.

 

[bigdogjim]

New spin!

This is not really an important point in this discussion, is it?

Well it is very plain to see that the facts have no bearing here.

People will twist the info into what ever makes them feel happy?

As for my self I am a lost? So time for me to go explore new worlds.

Peace.

 

[bigslim]

For once I can actually agree with Mac on something. Although he took a very, very, very long road to get to it. Mac made some good points.

Yes, Trilogy owns both it's cars. Yes, they have been used to death for demo purposes. Yes, Trilogy did exstinsive work to bring the kit to life. For the "Roots" type blower applications used for the Marauder, Trilogy is the pioneer.

Kenny Brown was the first to apply a supercharger to a Marauder. It was a Vortech centrifucal unit that was used on the car. After that Reinhart, Pandas, and even Greg applied the centrifucal technology to their cars. I have seen all the different centrifucal offerings and I must conclude that they all look the same under the hood with the exception being Greg's placement of the intercooler. So must say that I guess Reinhart, Pandas and Greg all copied off the Kenny Brown pioneer car.

At this time I know of only one manufactor that has a car for use as a demo to customers. That company is Trilogy. It has a stock application as well as a built application. From mild to wild the customer can test it all.

 

[SergntMac]

If certain people went to Pandes or elseware who only handled a couple of Marauders and falsley believed the contractors had the Knowledge Skills and Abilities to do a build-up, but did not, shame on them if it was just incompetence and not fraud.

Don't got there, Tim, it was neither. Brad Boxstance was the chief wrench, and Pande's Automotive took the glory. Both Marauders, one black, one silver were finished and delivered awesome power to the wheels. Enough power that the black Marauder could be propelled through a cinderblock wall about a foot thick, from a standing start less than 20 feet away. That Marauder died at the scene, and left with the insurance adjuster. The silver is in custody somewhere too. Something about guns, dope, and some hidden panels, ugly business, eh? I saw the hole in the wall the next day, and the black car. Built engine, ProCharger (sorry, can't recall which blower) with water-to-air and SCT tuning. Awesome power, but you might say it got driven a bit too hard.

 

[MI2QWK4U]

Well it is very plain to see that the facts have no bearing here.

People will twist the info into what ever makes them feel happy?

As for my self I am a lost? So time for me to go explore new worlds.Peace.

BUH BYE!​

 

[tmac1337]

Oooops

 

[SergntMac]

I don't know where you're going with on this Sarge, but it sounds like you're taking a negative shot on the members who post here, and taking a shot on our forum as a whole, collectively.

I am not a special olympian, refugee, or trekkie. I am neither a spokesman for others or a conveyer of misinformation. If you seek the right culture, as do I, you need not venture to planetary extremes,......You just need to take the right exit. It's local. Call it SVTPerformance.COM.

I can't take any credit for the "special" remark, that was someone else. But, I did refer to us a refugees, and that's not meant in a negative way.

Many of us are present, or, former MM.Net members who have rubbed the administration the wrong way at one time or another. I understand some of your other posts correctly, this includes you. I've been suspended twice, and I cannot gripe about it, I was out of line. Others here have been banned permanently. All Logan asks for is some respect for his simple rules, and I slipped up.

Things feel a bit more generous to us here, yes, but it's just a feeling. This board has the same rules, right? Maybe a bit more tolerant of the strength of opinions, but I've noted some posts edited for content. So, it's not really any different, and all we need to do to get along, is some mutual respect.

With regard to "coveying misinformation", well, that hinges on what folks percieve as truth. Much like your feeling that I was "taking a shot" at someone, or, everyone. If you are predisposed to think of me in that way, then all you will hear is an insult. If you believe it's a cheap shot, then to you, it must be. This is the same as truth, it's your perception, your feelings about it making the call. For the record, I like truth with proof, and if I cannot prove something, I won't post it. Fair enough?

I do agree with seeking out the right culture, and no, you don't have to venture into the cosmos to find it. Maybe I'll just sit back and watch what develops here?

 

[STLR FN]

The Special Olympian remark was made by me and I was referring to arguing on the net is like running special olympics: no matter who wins, you're still retarded.

I don't mind the refugee remark. Kinda funny if you ask me.

 

[DJP]

Sarge, I've got no problem with you or any other board member. I do get a little sensitive when I read and "perceive" comments in a negative light, only because I have read similar comments about sites like this on that other site. It's not a predispostion, or "perceived sin" (where have I heard that before), it's reality.

Now that I know what "special olympics" was intended to mean, I do agree that we do argue alot here, but WTF, we are only human and subject to conflict. You can't take different personalities, package them in a bottle with stringent rules, and tell people to act as one. Conversley, you cannot successfully run a site with no moderation, it's likely to blow up in your face. You can combine the two as most car boards do from what I have seen. The line between the two isn't as thin as some people think.

I hope you decide to stay, Sarge. This forum is going through some growing pains, granted, but in my opinion serves as the proper model of what a forum should be.

 

[SergntMac]

Thanks for the positive reply, David, if ever you (or anyone else here) feel you need to clarify something I've posted, you can reach me at [email protected]

 

[STLR FN]

snip ...

Now that I know what "special olympics" was intended to mean, I do agree that we do argue alot here, but WTF, we are only human and subject to conflict. You can't take different personalities, package them in a bottle with stringent rules, and tell people to act as one. Conversley, you cannot successfully run a site with no moderation, it's likely to blow up in your face. You can combine the two as most car boards do from what I have seen. The line between the two isn't as thin as some people think

I understand exactly what you mean. I think I said it in another topic here, that sometimes we take things toooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo far and just don't know when to let go. But as you said we're only human. Anyway carry on.