Women In Special Operations

[jerrad]

Unless you a highspeed super squirrel why does it matter? lol
There are women in my AFSC and just like men some are good troops and some suck.

I do agree that they shouldn't lower standards, that's counter productive and nothing good can come of it.

Gt500-lolz@mpg: I just finished watching the "making the cut" of the Army SF Diver episode. Made my hands sweat when they secured the hands and feet. lol

 

[Stevedotmil]

Having been in the regular Infantry for a while I can attest that the metric shitstorm of ridiculousness that would ensue after they make this official will be monumental at the least. It would be most definitely be a huge distraction. There would be so many instances of needing just another mandatory stand down day. SHARP training anyone? I have met some females in the military who could physically hang but most of them don't want to try it out because they feel like they would be average when they are above the rest right where they are. Who wouldn't? I will retire when this happens. It's going to and I just hope I'm already on the way out when it does. I hit 19 years in the same month I'm going back over the pond.

 

[TJSwoboda]

...And it's the good ol' boys versus the feminazis again, the battle of "no women allowed" against "lower standards for women." The final compromise, coming from the government, will probably make both sides look smart by comparison.

 

[jerrad]

...And it's the good ol' boys versus the feminazis again, the battle of "no women allowed" against "lower standards for women." The final compromise, coming from the government, will probably make both sides look smart by comparison.

What compromise could they make? If they lower the standards that will instantly cause a massive shit storm.

When I was at the school house there was a Navy female in the class behind me that was an absolute manimal. In my job, the Navy side is part of the NSW/NSO and she had to maintain the male standard. If they had a relaxed standard I can say without a shadow of a doubt that she would have failed because of the team work needed to get through the school.

 

[GT500-lolz@MPG]

5th most of my career. I am working at the US Embassy in Oman. I take it you are 7th.

Yes, 1/7. I was reg army for 7 years. Glad I made the change haha.

 

[GT500-lolz@MPG]

Unless you a highspeed super squirrel why does it matter? lol
There are women in my AFSC and just like men some are good troops and some suck.

I do agree that they shouldn't lower standards, that's counter productive and nothing good can come of it.

Gt500-lolz@mpg: I just finished watching the "making the cut" of the Army SF Diver episode. Made my hands sweat when they secured the hands and feet. lol

If your hands sweat just watching how do you think I felt when they actually strapped them on haha. "OH SH*T!"

 

[DaleM]

Yes, 1/7. I was reg army for 7 years. Glad I made the change haha.

83-87 I was with 2nd AD (now extinct) and 101st 87-89. Been with 5th since 89, done the school house work and now as a SGM only so many CMD slots, I am working on the last 2 years of doing one final hurray in Afg. Then retiring and fishing a lot.

 

[jerrad]

If your hands sweat just watching how do you think I felt when they actually strapped them on haha. "OH SH*T!"

Haha, the pool would've been warmer for sure.

 

[F1reStart3r]

I often hear people use Israel and South Korea as the example of countries that allow women to serve in SOF roles. Within those two countries women can serve in combat arms and SOF, but in exclusively all female units. They are not mixed with the men.

This is different. They don't have the manpower to support the size of their forces anyway, beyond service by requirement. On top of which our cultures are vastly different, which brings with it yet another cadre of problems.

If Israel had the population and security to not have to utilize their women I'm pretty sure they wouldn't. The countries that make women serve don't have a choice but to use them!

This. They have no choice.

The higher ups say plenty of crap about how women have been in combat in afgan and Iraq since the wars began and proven effective. The handful of women we were forced to take with us solely for Intel reason's lost their freaking minds the second we took contact and instead of implementing them into the combat situation we had to worry about wether or not she was going to be killed or get somebody killed...

Don't forget about your FETs! Some of the stupidest bullshit I ever saw.

 

[97desertCobra]

Unless you a highspeed super squirrel why does it matter? lol
There are women in my AFSC and just like men some are good troops and some suck.

I do agree that they shouldn't lower standards, that's counter productive and nothing good can come of it.

I'm not SOF but even as a 12B (combat engineer) my job is very physically demanding. A lot of what we do requires a higher standard of physical fitness then the rest of the military just to accomplish a mission, much like the infantry. In a conventional war this becomes more predominant because in a conventional war the fighting is faster, harder and non stop.

What most people seem to forget is that we are currently in a state of occupation in Afghanistan which is vastly different than the kind of fighting that took place at the end of 2001. The last time there was a "front line" was in the first few weeks during the Iraq invasion. This PC project to force "equality" within the military is a horrible mistake. Its going to be ugly when we have to fight another conventional front and god forbid another war on the same scale as WWII.

 

[DaleM]

I'm not SOF but even as a 12B (combat engineer) my job is very physically demanding. A lot of what we do requires a higher standard of physical fitness then the rest of the military just to accomplish a mission, much like the infantry. In a conventional war this becomes more predominant because in a conventional war the fighting is faster, harder and non stop.

What most people seem to forget is that we are currently in a state of occupation in Afghanistan which is vastly different than the kind of fighting that took place at the end of 2001. The last time there was a "front line" was in the first few weeks during the Iraq invasion. This PC project to force "equality" within the military is a horrible mistake. Its going to be ugly when we have to fight another conventional front and god forbid another war on the same scale as WWII.

Isn't that the focus of current force modernizations?
The enemy will be asymmetrical. conflicts with major powers will be less likely and even then would be short duration for the high intensity conflict.

Our strategies seem to bank on the occupation or low intensity spectrum of warfare. Even then the SOF guys will attest that the physical demands are high and the mental and psychological impacts are higher.

DA missions are going away again; the FID and train, advise, and assist roles will are becoming more prominent. Many cultures we visit like women almost as much as farm animals and not as much as little boys.

 

[03cobrah]

As long as the standards dont drop it would be rare to see them.

Female Marines Fail Infantry Officer Course | Washington Free Beacon

The women failed the introductory Combat Endurance Test, a punishing test of physical strength and endurance, officials at Marine Corps headquarters said Tuesday. The latest class began March 28 at Marine Corps Base Quantico, Va., with 110 lieutenants participating. Ninety-six men passed the initial endurance test. Twelve men and two women — the only female Marines taking part — failed.

The times also noted

The Marine Corps’ commandant, Gen. Jim Amos, said he’s aware of concerns from infantrymen, and wants to ensure standards are not lowered because of the policy change. In a letter distributed to his general officers the same day the Pentagon announced the policy change, Amos said the plan that he and the other joint chiefs developed calls for a three-year research period before the top officers in the Corps and Army make recommendations to civilian leaders in 2016. He stressed that no decisions have been made, including in the infantry, recon and spec-ops communities.

 

[jerrad]

I'm not SOF but even as a 12B (combat engineer) my job is very physically demanding. A lot of what we do requires a higher standard of physical fitness then the rest of the military just to accomplish a mission, much like the infantry. In a conventional war this becomes more predominant because in a conventional war the fighting is faster, harder and non stop.

I know what you mean. In the AF for EOD you have to do couple more tests at meps to qualify physically. Then at the school house the instructors do a great job of making sure you'll be able handle the work load in a deployed environment.

 

[TJSwoboda]

What compromise could they make? If they lower the standards that will instantly cause a massive shit storm.

I don't know, but they'll come up with something dumb. :nonono:

When I was at the school house there was a Navy female in the class behind me that was an absolute manimal. In my job, the Navy side is part of the NSW/NSO and she had to maintain the male standard. If they had a relaxed standard I can say without a shadow of a doubt that she would have failed because of the team work needed to get through the school.

I remember hearing in the mid-90s that women in the Navy weren't allowed to pull a detail that involved catching 100 lb bags of flour and sugar at the bottom of a staircase. I would think that a woman that's passed basic would be able to do this, but no, instead male NCOs who were supposed to have graduated from the shit work had to do it for them. No idea if that's changed, though...

 

[jerrad]

I remember hearing in the mid-90s that women in the Navy weren't allowed to pull a detail that involved catching 100 lb bags of flour and sugar at the bottom of a staircase. I would think that a woman that's passed basic would be able to do this, but no, instead male NCOs who were supposed to have graduated from the shit work had to do it for them. No idea if that's changed, though...

I'd be scared for a few of the guys that were at basic with me catching that. lol

 

[97desertCobra]

Gen McRaven sounds too much like a politician with this shit

http://www.defense.gov/news/SOCOMWISRImplementationPlan.pdf

And more proof of how out of touch our political leaders are when it comes to the realities of combat and "front lines". A true front line has not existed since March of 2003 so saying women are already on fighting alongside the men on the "front lines" is utter bull shit.

Supporters, critics open fire on women in combat - News - Stripes

 

[GT500-lolz@MPG]

The words that higher is using now is "Not to lower the standards, but to REDEFINE UNREALISTIC standards". So when I was in the SFQC and we did the PT Gates every 6 weeks which consisted of a week long of PT Testing including the Army APFT, 30' Rope Climb, Pull-Up Test, 5mi Run, 50m Swim Test and a 12mi Ruck March NLT 3 hours @65lbs Dry. Are they gonna tell me that these are unrealistic standards when my kit in afghanistan occasionally weighted twice as much as that ruck and we had to walk for 4-5 days straight through mountains?!?! Give me a break, there is nothing unrealistic about those standards AND IMO they need to raise the standards bc some of the men that make is through the Q now a days are just a joke...

 

[USMC53CHIEF]

I have a buddy in 3SFG, we work out together and go to the range to relax and what not and the issue has come up there quite a bit with curious civilians and our answer is always the same...

NOTHING BUT FREAKING TROUBLE. I wrote college thesis paper about this issue when they were first bringing it up again in '10. It went through that liberal college like a fart in church lol

It is a sign of the times though gents.... Ive had to come to terms with the "cannot control other peoples F**ktardation"