Loose Valve seat issue's

[Gearheadz]

ok, i know ford had a tsb on the driver side head, and you can tell if they was replaced if they have blue paint on them (which all the ones i have seen do have the blue paint)

but what is the deal with the passenger side heads letting the valves seats come completely out? any one else seen this? i have had 2 terminator cars now where i have torn them down and a seat is hanging out of the head behind a exhaust valve.

pics
first head!

second, this one got beat up, by chunks of blower landing in there, but he was having a issue with the rocker (on that valve) coming off before the blower decided to take a shit.

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

ok, i know ford had a tsb on the driver side head, and you can tell if they was replaced if they have blue paint on them (which all the ones i have seen do have the blue paint)

OK First of all forget you ever read this since they all have blue paint, it's BS.

but what is the deal with the passenger side heads letting the valves seats come completely out? any one else seen this? i have had 2 terminator cars now where i have torn them down and a seat is hanging out of the head behind a exhaust valve.

pics
first head!

second, this one got beat up, by chunks of blower landing in there, but he was having a issue with the rocker (on that valve) coming off before the blower decided to take a shit.

If you have a head that the seat came out of it was severely over heated.

If rockers are coming off check the guide, it is probably loose as a goose.

 

[encasedmetal]

ever heard the term-"turn up the juice see what shakes loose"? it's a heat issue your dealing with.

 

[Gearheadz]

If you have a head that the seat came out of it was severely over heated.

If rockers are coming off check the guide, it is probably loose as a goose.

:dw:
and i know they all have blue paint on them. was you a service tech getting paid to test drive them, and then bring them into service and replace the driver side head, right after doing a PDI on one right as they came off the truck? i know many who have tho.

funny ford has a tsb for the same issue on the 5.4 truck motors as-well.

.

TSB 06-5-13

03/20/06
ENGINE MISFIRE WITH DIAGNOSTIC TROUBLE
CODE (DTC) P0301, P0302, P0303, P0304, P0305,
P0306, P0307, P0308, AND P0316.

FORD:
2003-2004 Mustang, Mustang

LINCOLN:
1999-2004 Navigator
2002-2003 Blackwood
2003-2005 Aviator

MERCURY:
2003-2004 Marauder

ISSUE
Some 1999-2004 Navigator, 2002-2003 Blackwood, 2003-2005 Aviator, 2003-2004 Marauder and 2003-2004 Mustang vehicles built before 12/19/2004 equipped with 4.6L 4V/5.4 4V engine

CONDITION:
1. Perform relative compression check on all cylinders. If abnormal, check cylinder leakage and actual compression for "low" cylinders refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 303-00.

2. If leakage/compression check indicates a valve train concern, per valve train diagnostics in WSM, Section 303-00, replace cylinder head and cam assembly, pipe plugs and timing chain tensioner, per procedure outlined in WSM, Section 303-01.

3. If cylinder leakage and compression tests are inconclusive, perform misfire diagnostic, per TSB 05-22-8.

NOTE DO NOT TRANSFER SPARK PLUGS. INSTALL NEW SPARK PLUGS IN REPLACEMENT CYLINDER HEAD AND CAM ASSEMBLY.

NOTE THE ENGINE MISFIRE CONCERN IS TYPICALLY EXHIBITED ON THE LEFT HAND CYLINDER HEAD AND RARELY ON THE RIGHT HAND CYLINDER HEAD. UNLESS CONFIRMED, THE RIGHT HAND CYLINDER HEAD SHOULD NOT BE REPLACED AS AN "EXTRA MEASURE" SERVICE PRECAUTION

and funny how the same tsb covers the 03-04 mustang with the dohc engine huh.
but since ford knows they have a problem with loose fit exhaust valve seats, i guess its just a over heating issue huh. please, i have replaced a ton of heads on the 5.4 navi myself, and know there is a issue. just never seen alot of cobras doing it while at the dealer. but i did see a few mach 1's do it.

 

[69gt4speed]

Sorry man I have beat on mine many times even w n2o and nothing has happened like that. I myself limit wot time esp w n2o maybe that made a difference. I am sorry for your issues but I'd say you or someone beat the holy hell out of that car and dumped it. I would have thought that damage been easy to spot driving it. Btw I have a first build 03, june 2002 and no way it is like that one you posted.

 

[Quick Strike]

I had the same issue in my car. It was the reason for my rebuild at 40K miles. I only had a ported Eaton at the time and am the original (and a responsible) owner. I never had an overheating incident. The thrown rocker was the clue to dropped exhaust seat. The dropped seat intermittently prevented the valve from returning to the correct seated height. This left the rocker free to fall out. The valve seemed OK (moved under pressure) and the cylinder had good compression when I had the cover off to replace the rocker and lifter, but it threw the rocker again shortly after reassembly. This time there was no compression in the cylinder. The exhaust valve seat had dropped between the valve and piston bending the valve and damaging the piston. This issue did lead me to my current rebuild. I am happy it happened in that way. Otherwise, there would be no beast in my garage!

Here is the dropped seat in the left head before the rebuild:

 

[Gearheadz]

Yeah i have seen this issue in a ton of trucks. never over heated or abused like the cobras are. my big question is, can this be fixxed, or is replacing the head the only way to go with it. i know the one head i have is done, but one is fixable.

 

[Quick Strike]

my big question is, can this be fixxed, or is replacing the head the only way to go with it.

I had my seat repaired. They also welded up any damage in the combustion chamber and surfaced the heads .003" to clean them up. I had them CNC ported and added bronze guides, oversized valves and Comp springs at the same time. When the heads came back the valves needed to be lapped in again and the heads needed to be resurfaced. The head surface was uneven and had chatter marks. The valves were showing light through the ports. A great deal is not always a great deal since it cost another $400 to fix MMR's work right out of the shop. I guess I could have sent them back across the country for another shot at repair, but I did not trust them since they let them out of the shop that way in the first place! The heads are working fine now.

 

[Quick Strike]

DP - Sorry

 

[Gearheadz]

I had my seat repaired. They also welded up any damage in the combustion chamber and surfaced the heads .003" to clean them up. I had them CNC ported and added bronze guides, oversized valves and Comp springs at the same time. When the heads came back the valves needed to be lapped in again and the heads needed to be resurfaced. The head surface was uneven and had chatter marks. The valves were showing light through the ports. A great deal is not always a great deal since it cost another $400 to fix MMR's work right out of the shop. I guess I could have sent them back across the country for another shot at repair, but I did not trust them since they let them out of the shop that way in the first place! The heads are working fine now.

Yeah, i have had a few customer's with horror storys on mmr stuff.

what did the mmr work cost you tho. i have been pricing this stuff a little, and thats the long list of stuff im calling about. TEA is the one i trust with this stuff. guess i could call fox lake too.

 

[cobracide]

Wow, that head was cooked. Sorry to hear about your vendor experience as well. Hope you get it straightened out.

 

[Quick Strike]

Yeah, i have had a few customer's with horror storys on mmr stuff. What did the mmr work cost you tho. i have been pricing this stuff a little, and thats the long list of stuff im calling about.

MMR charged $2400 for the repairs, CNC porting, surfacing, SS OS valves, guides, springs, assembly and shipping cost to coast (almost). I had a trusted local (Buick) cylinder head specialist flow the heads, CC the chambers and make repairs to MMR's work. That added $400 to the total cost. I attached a scan of how they flow by my independent tester below (He thinks the intakes would have topped out at 310-315 CFM if he had a better adapter to the intake port from the flow bench):

Sorry to hear about your vendor experience as well. Hope you get it straightened out.

I know this was directed at Gearheadz, but I did not feel like sending my heads back across the country to give them another chance to mess them up. I can't beleive the heads left MMR's shop in the condition i got them, and I would not take another chance on their quality control after that. I let my local guy fix their defiencies and figued I saved $100 in shipping and $300 in aggravation. I am very happy with the way they work on the car now.

 

[Gearheadz]

i dont think that was directed at me. your the one that had a issue with mmr. im just the one that has heard and seen that stuff before.:bored:

 

[cobra=trouble]

I had my seat repaired. They also welded up any damage in the combustion chamber and surfaced the heads .003" to clean them up. I had them CNC ported and added bronze guides, oversized valves and Comp springs at the same time. When the heads came back the valves needed to be lapped in again and the heads needed to be resurfaced. The head surface was uneven and had chatter marks. The valves were showing light through the ports. A great deal is not always a great deal since it cost another $400 to fix MMR's work right out of the shop. I guess I could have sent them back across the country for another shot at repair, but I did not trust them since they let them out of the shop that way in the first place! The heads are working fine now.

man that just sucks! to have to resurface the heads and do the valves over again..

 

[cobra=trouble]

MMR charged $2400 for the repairs, CNC porting, surfacing, SS OS valves, guides, springs, assembly and shipping cost to coast (almost). I had a trusted local (Buick) cylinder head specialist flow the heads, CC the chambers and make repairs to MMR's work. That added $400 to the total cost. I attached a scan of how they flow by my independent tester below (He thinks the intakes would have topped out at 310-315 CFM if he had a better adapter to the intake port from the flow bench):

I know this was directed at Gearheadz, but I did not feel like sending my heads back across the country to give them another chance to mess them up. I can't beleive the heads left MMR's shop in the condition i got them, and I would not take another chance on their quality control after that. I let my local guy fix their defiencies and figued I saved $100 in shipping and $300 in aggravation. I am very happy with the way they work on the car now.

what over sized valves did you end up going with ? 1 or 2 mm and on both the intake and exhast ?

 

[Quick Strike]

what over sized valves did you end up going with ? 1 or 2 mm and on both the intake and exhast ?

1 mm on the intake and exhaust. The one piece of good information from MMR was that higher spring pressures (aftermarket) can snap the heads off stock valves in our engines. The SS valve was insurance against this, and the oversize did not cost any more.

 

[cobra=trouble]

1 mm on the intake and exhaust. The one piece of good information from MMR was that higher spring pressures (aftermarket) can snap the heads off stock valves in our engines. The SS valve was insurance against this, and the oversize did not cost any more.

i think the stock vavles where pressed power metal ? and the reatainer too.
yes I..might as well get the big one but wasn't sure if the 2 mm O.S. was to big or not. i will have to get the valve throat and bowl area opened up.
i think this will be good on my 3.700 bore block.since the bigger bore makes the heads flow in stock form.
And i think it valve stems are under cut on the S.S valves,and swirl polished. now i can run stock cams ..now i can have the more flow and smoother idle too.?:shrug: