Problems With Navi Heads

[Ironhand]

Not sure where to put it but they are being used on an 03 Cobra.

The issue Ive having right now is with the passenger side head.

When you try to put the secondary chain tensioner on the passenger head, the plate that is riveted to the tensioner strikes the lip in front and underneath the front of the cams and wont allow for it to be bolted down. I called Steve @ Tousley several times and have gone over parts countless times and the passenger side chain tensioner that is used is the same across the board on all 4 Valves. I also gave him part numbers off the heads but that lead to a dead end as well.

Can someone post up a pic of the passenger side head without the main sprocket on?

So far in my research I have found 2 pictures that make it appear that on the passenger side head that lip is actually machined off to allow for the tensioner to bolt in place. As well as allowing the secondary chains to ride correctly on the guide by flipping the sprockets around on the cams themselves. However, with secondary sprockets on with the chain and it being flipped around the chain physically touches that lip on the cylinder head.

As a Note: Everything that I am doing to the passenger side I have already done on the driver side and it fits like it was made to go there. Hence why I cant figure out what if anything Im doing wrong or if Im fighting an incorrect head.

All of this is leading me to believe I have 2 "Driver side" heads. The interesting part is that the oil galley ways and other odds and ends are correct for both heads including the "Passenger side". I unless Im missing parts or putting this together incorrectly the only solution I see is to take the head and have the lip machined off.

If any builders on here can PM, Email, Call, or send me info via bird, I could really use it to get this knocked out of the way and get this motor assembled.

 

[hotcobra03]

head

im no engine guy but have an 03 head in front of me for drivers side...


on this head the back side is flat and the front comes out for chains/cover

cant see it working on other side,,

are the adjusters on the right side?

engine
https://acrobat.com/#d=*XsRMaPtENGX2sP-TNDyWA

just the head
https://acrobat.com/#d=1QlUk*39J6q00o-pk7XuZg

 

[Ironhand]

im no engine guy but have an 03 head in front of me for drivers side...


on this head the back side is flat and the front comes out for chains/cover

cant see it working on other side,,

are the adjusters on the right side?

engine
https://acrobat.com/#d=*XsRMaPtENGX2sP-TNDyWA

just the head
https://acrobat.com/#d=1QlUk*39J6q00o-pk7XuZg

Nice info. I even Downloaded it to help with the build. If you follow your second link and go to page two and look at the picture in the top right you will see a chain tensioner for the driver side. Behind it you will see that "Lip" I was referring too. The tensioner for the passenger side bolts down vertically.On the Navi head they are trying to fill the same space with the lip not letting the tensioner sit down all the way.

 

[jrgoffin]

Look at the casting numbers on the heads. If both are the same, wouldn't that tell you that you have two of the same head? I have seen some re-built motors with the same casting number on both heads, but there is extra work that needs to be done to "flip" one of the heads to the other side.

 

[Ironhand]

Look at the casting numbers on the heads. If both are the same, wouldn't that tell you that you have two of the same head? I have seen some re-built motors with the same casting number on both heads, but there is extra work that needs to be done to "flip" one of the heads to the other side.

Yes both numbers are the same and end in AB. But when I asked Steve at Tousley about it that really doesnt mean much. I have a picture of a driver side head from a 2003 Navigator that ends in AC. Sometimes AA, AB, can mean sides or it can just mean that AB was a revision of AA. So even with a AB part number it can be a driver side head still. But the more and more I think about all the work Ive done to these heads, looks like Ill take it to a machine shop later today and have them machine it to my specs. That's how the rest of this build seems to be going.

 

[jrgoffin]

Yes both numbers are the same and end in AB. But when I asked Steve at Tousley about it that really doesnt mean much. I have a picture of a driver side head from a 2003 Navigator that ends in AC. Sometimes AA, AB, can mean sides or it can just mean that AB was a revision of AA. So even with a AB part number it can be a driver side head still. But the more and more I think about all the work Ive done to these heads, looks like Ill take it to a machine shop later today and have them machine it to my specs. That's how the rest of this build seems to be going.

That is correct, but it will give you an idea of what you are up against. On my Cobra for example, the driver's head is: 2C5E-6C064-BC (I think - just doing that from memory) and the passenger side is 2C5E-6C064-AG, which is also the same on my Aviator.

I saw another motor recently that had the "AG" heads on both sides. Just gives you an idea that you'll have some extra work to do on the head to be able to use it on the opposite side. As to what exactly needs to be done - not entirely sure. Hope it works out though!!

-------------------------------------------

Forgot to add...here is the TSB that called for the head "upgrade" on the DOHC motors:

http://www.stangnet.com/images/stories/docs/sn95_TSBs/06-05-13.pdf

Notice the 4.5 and 5.4 heads are totally different. Maybe those differences will keep the head from being an easy bolt-on from the 5.4 to the 4.6?

 

[Ironhand]

That is correct, but it will give you an idea of what you are up against. On my Cobra for example, the driver's head is: 2C5E-6C064-BC (I think - just doing that from memory) and the passenger side is 2C5E-6C064-AG, which is also the same on my Aviator.

I saw another motor recently that had the "AG" heads on both sides. Just gives you an idea that you'll have some extra work to do on the head to be able to use it on the opposite side. As to what exactly needs to be done - not entirely sure. Hope it works out though!!

Ill make it work! Then everyone will see the build thread. Ill expose all my secrets then. :lol::beer:

 

[jrgoffin]

Cool, hope so!!!

Addes the TSB with the head part numbers. Maybe that will help?

 

[Ironhand]

Cool, hope so!!!

Addes the TSB with the head part numbers. Maybe that will help?

Im looking for a machine shop brave enough to do it now. :shrug:

 

[hotcobra03]

Nice info. I even Downloaded it to help with the build. If you follow your second link and go to page two and look at the picture in the top right you will see a chain tensioner for the driver side. Behind it you will see that "Lip" I was referring too. The tensioner for the passenger side bolts down vertically.On the Navi head they are trying to fill the same space with the lip not letting the tensioner sit down all the way.

are you sure your tensioner is all the way closed with pin in,,,or even the white pad the chain rides on?

have you tryed to just put tensioner on with out chains to see if it does fit?

how about moving cams to make more slack to bolt it up

 

[hotcobra03]

Ford Timing Belts & Chains


try looking at part numbers....6L266 is the bace number...i see some different numbers in here

 

[hotcobra03]

was searching google for pics

found 6l266 is what ford manual says for tensioner but it comes up as main chain..

i went into my receipts and found..F7LZ-6K254-AA was what i got from ford for passenger side,,,F7LZ-6K254-ba as drivers side


F7LZ-6K254-BA
F7LZ-6K254-AA TENSION

looks like different main chain tensioner for year change..

F6AZ-6L266-CA TENSION /1L3Z-6L266-aa
F6AZ-6L266-DA TENSION /XL1Z-6L266-aa

 

[hotcobra03]

being touslys site also show l/r i wonder is the driverside can be put together with the wrong tensioner even if wrong to use that way? im still looking for my old one..i keep everything that comes off for reasons like this

 

[hotcobra03]

found these pics

Timing Chain Tensioner | 2003 Ford Mustang Cobra 8 Cylinders Y 4.6L SFI DOHC SC | AutoZone.com

 

[Jimmysidecarr]

Is this a 5.4 build or a 4.6 build.:shrug:

It sounds like you are talking about the secondary timing chain tensioner,(the small chain from cam to cam) That will be a 6K254. The 6L266 is for the main chains, the early ones were cast iron and they were replaced by the plastic ones, either should work, IN THAT LOCATION.

 

[jrgoffin]

This might help too - has many of the base part numbers:

 

[Ironhand]

are you sure your tensioner is all the way closed with pin in,,,or even the white pad the chain rides on?

have you tryed to just put tensioner on with out chains to see if it does fit?

how about moving cams to make more slack to bolt it up

Your referring to the MAIN tensioner that holds that long chain guide that pivots on a dowel in the block.

Im referring to the secondary chain tensioner not the main.

was searching google for pics

found 6l266 is what ford manual says for tensioner but it comes up as main chain..

i went into my receipts and found..F7LZ-6K254-AA was what i got from ford for passenger side,,,F7LZ-6K254-ba as drivers side


F7LZ-6K254-BA
F7LZ-6K254-AA TENSION

looks like different main chain tensioner for year change..

F6AZ-6L266-CA TENSION /1L3Z-6L266-aa
F6AZ-6L266-DA TENSION /XL1Z-6L266-aa

The one on the right is the REVISED model and is what is currently being used on the 4V cars. But again, that is for the MAIN tensioner not the secondary.

being touslys site also show l/r i wonder is the driverside can be put together with the wrong tensioner even if wrong to use that way? im still looking for my old one..i keep everything that comes off for reasons like this

For reasons like this is why they mark the main tensioners with a L and R and they are different part numbers. Although, I have both already bolted to the heads and I cant see a difference.

Is this a 5.4 build or a 4.6 build.:shrug:

It sounds like you are talking about the secondary timing chain tensioner,(the small chain from cam to cam) That will be a 6K254. The 6L266 is for the main chains, the early ones were cast iron and they were replaced by the plastic ones, either should work, IN THAT LOCATION.

First, You'll have that answer by the weekend. Ill be goin out to do some work and get my pics finally today.

Second, Yes I was referring to the secondary guide/tensioner. I already took the head to the machine shop Monday and had them knock the lip off the way I wanted it to be. I got it back yesterday evening and the head is already torqued down on the block. Ill be posting pics either later today or later on in the week.