How does this cam journal look to you

[SVT_Troy]

I was in the process of swapping my cams out and found a couple rough looking cam journals. The picture shows only one which I believe to be the worst. I think it needs to be professionally repaired.

Iv'e had a guy tell me that they would be ok as the head is aluminum and the steel cam would just smooth out the journal during normal operation without damaging the new cam.

What do y'all think? I just don't have the experience and wanted a second opinion. If it is ok I was thinking about taking a scotch brute pad and some fine grit sand paper to them at a minimum.

 

[99cobra09]

It will be ok, grab some red scuff pad and hit all the journals.

 

[01Jes]

I wouldn't chance it. If it catches the fingernail id repair it.

 

[oldmodman]

And make sure that you use a drill bit to chamfer the edge of the oil hole and remove all that metal hanging over the edge. Just the slightest amount to break the edge is all you need.

 

[Quick Strike]

I'd be concerned about what went through that and where did it go? Make sure to debur and clean oil galleries appropriately before installing. Did any of your lash adjusters fail?

 

[SVT_Troy]

I'd be concerned about what went through that and where did it go? Make sure to debur and clean oil galleries appropriately before installing. Did any of your lash adjusters fail?

These are the heads that came off my blown motor (all bearings failed) last year. I had some minor porting done and supposedly everything checked out. The guy that did the work told me that the journals would be ok. I just want to make sure.

The galleries were cleaned prior to the heads going back together. and I put in new seals, retainers and springs. I'm also going new cams, nothing crazy just some Fort GT cams. I was swapping them out last night and one journal caught me by surprise and I started thinking the worse. What my guy says makes since I just wanted a second opinion. I'll just take some scotch bright and clean them up.

How exactly do I check the lash adjusters?

And make sure that you use a drill bit to chamfer the edge of the oil hole and remove all that metal hanging over the edge. Just the slightest amount to break the edge is all you need.

I plan on cleaning that oil hole out which has some material in it as can be seen from the pic.

 

[hotcobra03]

Lash adjusters are super cheap..just go all new..

 

[SVT_Troy]

Lash adjusters are super cheap..just go all new..

What do you call cheap Bill?

 

[Quick Strike]

I would spring for new ones because you had contaminant in the oiling system and the adjusters have a single small access point for oil and do not disassemble for cleaning.

I tested mine by squeezing them in a vice with hard wood on either end. They should bleed out the oil hole slowly requiring a small turn against pressure and then another and another. Any that squeezed right down (4) were replaced. Any that would not bleed would have been replaced, but all of mine did. I was comfortable testing and replacing mine as my valve seat and ringland failure did not contaminate the oil.

 

[racebronco2]

There is a way to check the adjusters.
Put them in a vise with a socket on the tip of the adjuster so that oil can escape.
Apply air pressure to the small hole on the side of the adjuster.
As you apply the air to the side you should be able to turn the vise slowly but steady as the oil escapes.
When you get the air pressure and vise moving steady you have it right,
It may take a few tries to get it right. You will need to put a rag over the adjuster or else the oil will spray every where. This is the procedure John Mihovetz told me personally to check the adjusters. I tried it and it does work. If the lifter compresses it's ok but if it rock hard it is bad. John told me even some new ones are bad.

 

[hotcobra03]

What do you call cheap Bill?

List about 3 bucks

I went to a engine builder not parts store...

 

[SVT_Troy]

List about 3 bucks

I went to a engine builder not parts store...

I'll call Tousley tomorrow. If there $3 a piece I'll just get new ones. Do I need to prime them or can I just install them straight from the box?

 

[hotcobra03]

I'll call Tousley tomorrow. If there $3 a piece I'll just get new ones. Do I need to prime them or can I just install them straight from the box?

I had soaked mine in clean oil prior to install..

However you plan to degree your cams..not sure on process if adjusters are installed. During?

 

[MaximumVelocity]

That head will not be ok without machine work. The thrust side (lower side in the pic) takes the brunt of the force of the cam (remember the chain tensioner and cam followers produce lateral loading). If the journal had a small groove (like the upper half in the pic) you would be ok.

Only way to reuse the head is have it welded and have the journal remachined / align honed. If you reuse the head (even using emery cloth or Scotchbrite), cam support and lubrication is compromised and you will be tearing the motor apart again...soon.

It hurts to say (with a ported head), but you might be better off with a new casting if you can't find a machine shop comfortable with the repair. Been in this situation before.

 

[Quick Strike]

The lash adjusters from Tousley (now Tosca?) were over $8 a piece when I got them in 08, but I only got two then (two earlier when it was throwing followers). Summit and Jegs both want over $10 each, but I did find them at Northern Auto at $6.55 each and with an outfit called Evergreen for $5.60 each. The Ford number crosses over to a Sealed Power number (HT2271B) that fits Mazda and Jeep too. It looks like they are pretty common and should be even cheaper from a general source.

You can have the adjusters in while degreeing, but need to leave the followers off all but the valve you are degreeing. That way you are not fighting the chain or other lobes coming to or away from centerline while assessing the .050" before and after centerline points on the degree wheel. I just oiled the outside of my adjusters and made sure they were all pumped down to start. That way the followers could be easily popped on with a screw driver. Later, the garden sprayer was used to prime the system while turning the engine over to assess head oiling and pump up the adjusters/ tensioners a little. It is not a necessary step, but makes me feel better.

 

[SVT_Troy]

That head will not be ok without machine work. The thrust side (lower side in the pic) takes the brunt of the force of the cam (remember the chain tensioner and cam followers produce lateral loading). If the journal had a small groove (like the upper half in the pic) you would be ok.

Only way to reuse the head is have it welded and have the journal remachined / align honed. If you reuse the head (even using emery cloth or Scotchbrite), cam support and lubrication is compromised and you will be tearing the motor apart again...soon.

It hurts to say (with a ported head), but you might be better off with a new casting if you can't find a machine shop comfortable with the repair. Been in this situation before.

I have seen/heard of heads requiring material to be welded in & recut in order to reuse but I was under the impression this was for serious damage. I only have the one journal that with a grove cut in it and polished it out some today. It now feels smooth to the touch and with the cam bolted in place, it spins smoothly. I know I cannot put a load on the cam as it was running but it feels ok to me. I was considering taking the head off and getting my local trusted machine shops pinion as well. After posting here I started to think this much wasn't required.

I am not into half ass'ing anything but do not want to go through the trouble if it isn't needed. If the aluminum journal is smooth how can it cause damage to a steel cam?

Here is a pic I just took after some minor polishing. I actually think the pic makes it look worse than it is.

 

[SVT_Troy]

The lash adjusters from Tousley (now Tosca?) were over $8 a piece when I got them in 08, but I only got two then (two earlier when it was throwing followers). Summit and Jegs both want over $10 each, but I did find them at Northern Auto at $6.55 each and with an outfit called Evergreen for $5.60 each. The Ford number crosses over to a Sealed Power number (HT2271B) that fits Mazda and Jeep too. It looks like they are pretty common and should be even cheaper from a general source.

You can have the adjusters in while degreeing, but need to leave the followers off all but the valve you are degreeing. That way you are not fighting the chain or other lobes coming to or away from centerline while assessing the .050" before and after centerline points on the degree wheel. I just oiled the outside of my adjusters and made sure they were all pumped down to start. That way the followers could be easily popped on with a screw driver. Later, the garden sprayer was used to prime the system while turning the engine over to assess head oiling and pump up the adjusters/ tensioners a little. It is not a necessary step, but makes me feel better.

Thanks a lot for the lash adjuster reference. At $6 a pop thats $192 which I don't really call cheap. I may have to take them to work and check them out instead of just replacing them.

All of the cam followers are off except the # 1 and #5 cylinders which are the only cylinders that will be getting degree'd exhuast/intake unless I'm seriously misunderstanding something. People don't do every cylinder do they? That doesn't really make sense to me if they do.:??:

I absolutely will be priming the engine with a garden sprayer prior to starting. i will also be doing that with the valve covers off to make sure oil is going through the heads correctly.

 

[Quick Strike]

1 and 6 actually. They use the same TDC. That way you only have to find TDC once to degree both sides of the engine. Read through this a few times and you will have a better idea of what to do.

I'd bolt the cage on and check the bearing clearance with an inside mic. See if you are within spec. Groved mains have been used for years to bring oil to the back side of the bearing and more oil to the rods. It takes away from the load capacity by reducing the width, but we are not talking about a crankshaft here.

 

[Quick Strike]

Thanks a lot for the lash adjuster reference. At $6 a pop thats $192 which I don't really call cheap. I may have to take them to work and check them out instead of just replacing them.

I would just worry that a little piece of bearing crud from the blown motor could have made it's way into one or more of these adjusters. There is no good way to flush them out completely: leaving the possibility of a working adjuster that fails later.

 

[hotcobra03]

Tousley..steve would put kits together that werent listed.

I think he has moved at least 1 ..but I recall seeing thread with info..

He had put together a timing chaing kit will all the pieces under 400..

Maybe locate steve..

Rock auto..box of 4..17.92..8 boxes 143.36