How to Properly Delete PCV w/ Remote Breather

[Sagittaria]

The PCV system on our cars, especially under boost, has a tendency suck up quite a bit of oil vapor and builds up a nasty coat on the inter cooler. The PCV works by pulling some air from the intake through the passenger side valve cover. The air passes from one side of the motor to the driver side cover and into the blower. There is another that Ts off from this last line into the lower intake - possibly Ford's attempt to mitigate oil from passing through the inter cooler but it doesn't work.

See Picture

Here is a picture of what my remote breather picked up after 1000 miles of not so gentle driving.

Here are the typical options people use to approach this:
1. Catch Can in line of the PCV.
Pros: Retains PCV functionality.
Cons: Doesn't perform very well especially under high boost - oil just passes straight through. Works better for NA applications.
2. Breathers on valve covers
Pros: Deletes PCV completely
Smoother idle due to not having idle air weaving through the engine
Cons: Oil dirties up surrounding area.
3. Breather on one Valve Cover. PCV still connected on other.
Pros: None
Cons: Vacuum Leak
Still pulling oil vapor
Worse gas mileage
Unmetered air.
This is bad. I don't know why so many do this but you are effectively drawing air through the motor without it going through the MAF.
4. Remote breather to both covers
Pros: Smoother idle, clean intake. Gunk pools in can.
Cons: None

Anyways here are the following parts you'll need.
(1) Moroso 85470 Breather Tank with 3/8 NPT inlet (Online)
(1) 3/8NPT to 5/8 Barb Fitting (mom and pop hardware store)
(2) Dorman/Help PCV Ford elbow. Should be a straight grommet fitting on one end and a 5/8" hose end on the other. (Vatozone/Oreillys PCV section)
7ft 5/8" Hose
(1) 5/8" T (mom and pop hardware store)
Vacuum Cap Pack with big caps (Vatozone/Oreillys)
Zip Ties

Here's the parts. There's only one vacuum cap pictured here.

Fit one end of the hose into the PCV elbow and lay across. You can see the place I chose to put my can. Be sure that the can isn't bending over away from the car - as it can hit the cowl on the hood if it's not pointing straight up. Cut line when it comes next to the can.

Here's the routing for the other side. Route it so it make a smooth loop around so the oil can drip down towards the tank. Also be sure to do it like this so you can zip tie the hose to the crossover pipe or (I don't an expansion tank) the expansion tank. Put in T connector and cut appropriate amount of hose to connect the T and the expansion tank.

Everything completed. Cap the passenger side PCV fitting on the intake and the plastic tube near the old location of the PCV valve. However, it would be best to cap the lower intake and the blower separately if you have the patience to pull off all those lines.

Note how the line evenly slopes down to expansion tank.

You can use AN fittings/line or put the catch can somewhere else (fender well?) but I chose to do it this way as it's cheap and easy to access.

NOTE: RETAIN ALL PCV items removed. This mod will not pass inspection.

 

[dark-knight]

Looks like an awesome set up! i gotta try that.

 

[Silver03Termi]

op, looks nice, however, you are forgetting something. The air that is flowing through those tube, is metered and should be given back to the engine. You are essentially creating a leak in a closed system. Also, the diagram that you posted is how the system "ideally" works. Fact of the matter is that air flows OUT of both heads. You can feel it at idle simply by removing the hoses on the heads. You can see evidence of it on your throttle body. I did a lot of research on this. The only 100% effective way is to run 2 catch cans and leave it routed the way Ford did. You also made the lines "t" into the catch can. They should pass through the can. The vapor could by pass it and go directly into the other head, or most likely build up into the lines and simply drain into the can. Just some food for thought.

 

[itSSlow98]

This is what Ill be doing but you need a two port catch can. Your not gonna be able to vent the crankcase pressure fast enough with that T its too much of a restriction.

 

[04Mach1Blurr]

Op, is it necessary to run the passenger side hose around the front of the blower, or is it possible to route the hose over the blower along with your strut brace? I am thinking I could possibly run it through or close to the Shaker hood scoop that is on top of my eaton. If it is possible you could just re-position the T fitting to adjust for the new hose routes.

The air that is flowing through those tube, is metered and should be given back to the engine. You are essentially creating a leak in a closed system. I did a lot of research on this. The only 100% effective way is to run 2 catch cans and leave it routed the way Ford did. You also made the lines "t" into the catch can. They should pass through the can. The vapor could by pass it and go directly into the other head, or most likely build up into the lines and simply drain into the can. Just some food for thought.

So your saying that in order for the system to work at maximum efficency under wide open throttle with or without a boosted setup, it needs one catch can for each pcv vent on each cylinder head? Also that the T fitting shouldn't be there and instead have the hoses go in and out of the catch can to minimize blow by, correct? What itSSlow98 is saying about the two port catch can.

This is what Ill be doing but you need a two port catch can. Your not gonna be able to vent the crankcase pressure fast enough with that T its too much of a restriction.

 

[mu22stang]

op, looks nice, however, you are forgetting something. The air that is flowing through those tube, is metered and should be given back to the engine.

Air that is metered and flows past the rings during the combustion cycle, i.e. blowby, does not need to be given back.

 

[04Mach1Blurr]

no...they dont NEED breathers. There are two schools of thought on this subject...with breathers you have un-metered air problem possible. Some say you can get around with the proper tune...

some want to use stock style with catch valves to stop oil mist and hot air from going back into the intake track.
There are plenty of theory's on how it should be done and plenty of DIFFERENT setups....

Was checking out some similar information research on Looking for Catch Can Set-ups - 2003-04 Mach 1 Registry Owners Club.

Without breathers is it possible to keep the "metered" air in the system yet have the catch can still?

 

[desert_gypsy]

The best way to keep all that crap from getting back into your engine, catch-canned or not, is to just run both pcv's under the car and vent them to the atmosphere. It's cheap and effective. Make sure you keep the lines flowing downhill in case some condensation builds up in there and then freezes. Makes a nasty mess once you start the car.

The truth is, an engine is going to eat as much as it's going to eat, air-wise. This applies to both n/a and FI configurations. Reintroducing gases from the PCV system post-MAF and pre-TB will just displace clean air that would've otherwise filled the cylinders.

The vapor from the PCV system, especially at high rpm's and when blowby is increased (i.e. super/turbocharging/nitrous. anything that raises cylinder pressures considerably) contains lots of suspended oil droplets which, if reintroduced into the intake stream, combines with the fresh intake charge and fuel and increases its volatility. Reduced octane rating? To hell with that, I'll take all I can get.

Another thought: The convergence of the PCV vapors and the high-speed intake stream can't be conducive to a smooth-ish flowing intake stream. Not sure how much difference this makes, though, as the air has already been metered. No doubt there are a couple hp to be gained by completely eliminating the pcv system altogether.

 

[04Mach1Blurr]

you probably will get kicked off of any race track if they see that or see drips under the car

 

[Snake Plissken]

Looks good OP. It's a shame there's no room for a vacuum pump on the front of these motors, that would be the best way to use a breather/catch can set-up.

 

[Sagittaria]

As others have mentioned, blowby has already been metered - does not need to be reintroduced back into the system.

No you cannot run the hose over the blower. Check my original post. The hose must slope DOWN to the catch can otherwise gunk is just going to flow back down to the motor.

Yes, a two port catch can would be the correct application for this setup. However, there is very little room in our engine bay for such a can... short of putting it inside the fender which is a PITA to empty out.

Perhaps the T is a restriction, I highly doubt it. The line I used is 5/8" line. Try blowing through that or even sticking an air compressor hose through it- it's is some pretty big line, especially for extremely low pressures of blowby. If you have that much blow by - you've got bigger problems. Heck the catch can breather port is barely an inch thick as it is.

EDIT: And Snake Plissken - I actually looked into the vacuum pump method. A lot of people were using the 96-98 cobra electric smog pumps by connecting both ports to one hose, routing that to a catch can, and then to the pump. However, it just seems a little much work.

A remote catch can setup is an extremely common method - even the T. Please see this guy's build - (which is actually where I got my ideas for this very thread AND my expansion tank delete)

http://www.svtperformance.com/forum...whipple-2-9-time-oh-yesss-7.html#post10331632

 

[04Mach1Blurr]

Thank you, thats very helpful. Another question regarding the lower intake manifold pcv section. Did you use the same cap used on the intake tube as for the lower intake manifold pcv section? Also, is there enough pressure to pop the hoses off of the T and 90* elbow fittings or should they be clamped down?

 

[V6&V8SHO]

I went with the quick method.

It barely causes a mess at all. Quick wipe with a Microfiber. Done.

 

[Sagittaria]

Thank you, thats very helpful. Another question regarding the lower intake manifold pcv section. Did you use the same cap used on the intake tube as for the lower intake manifold pcv section? Also, is there enough pressure to pop the hoses off of the T and 90* elbow fittings or should they be clamped down?

The barbed fittings are very hard to pull on and off. So those will be fine.

 

[Silver03Termi]

Here are the typical options people use to approach this:
1. Catch Can in line of the PCV.
Pros: Retains PCV functionality.
Cons: Doesn't perform very well especially under high boost - oil just passes straight through. Works better for NA applications.


NOTE: RETAIN ALL PCV items removed. This mod will not pass inspection.

1. What leads you to believe that "in line" catch cans don't work well under high boost? Air to oil separators work by providing a cavity for the gas to expand into and slow down enough for the oil to fall out. Out flow the system by running a lot of boost and you will by pass your cans, absolutely. Some employ secondary measures to increase efficiency/decrease size such as a medium for the oil to collect onto or are cooled (like on my STi) by the coolant system.

2. An efficient enough inline system IS the best option. I ran 2 small catch cans on my 21psi whippled cobra for a long time. I had the blower off after a year and there was no oil in the manifold or on the inter cooler.

3. Using 2 catch cans will allow you to pass an inspection and suffice.

4. Using 2 catch cans and keeping the system closed will allow you to put the catch cans anywhere, eliminating the need for the lines to "slope down". See the pic below of my old car. You can barely see the 2 catch cans, compared to your monster, they are tiny.

5. Using your method is no different than using 2 breathers. You just don't have to clean up the mess associated with 2 breathers.

 

[Silver03Termi]

The PCV system on our cars, especially under boost, has a tendency suck up quite a bit of oil vapor and builds up a nasty coat on the inter cooler. The PCV works by pulling some air from the intake through the passenger side valve cover. The air passes from one side of the motor to the driver side cover and into the blower. There is another that Ts off from this last line into the lower intake - possibly Ford's attempt to mitigate oil from passing through the inter cooler but it doesn't work.

See Picture

Your drawing is how it was designed to work. In practice, it's different. The reason the oil puddles in the intake tract is because it provides a cool place for the gas to cool and allows the oil to fall out.


Uploaded with ImageShack.us

 

[SVT_Troy]

so are yall capping and removing the line under the blower and on the back of it? I didnt see it mentioned but im assuming this is whats happening.

 

[Silver03Termi]

so are yall capping and removing the line under the blower and on the back of it? I didnt see it mentioned but im assuming this is whats happening.

No. 2 small inline catch cans. Leave it plumbed the way Ford did. That's how I did it anyways. Worked great on my set up, which was moving a lot more air than the op's set up.

 

[Sagittaria]

No. 2 small inline catch cans. Leave it plumbed the way Ford did. That's how I did it anyways. Worked great on my set up, which was moving a lot more air than the op's set up.

I figured this was going to cause some debate. Yes I ran catch cans before - no it caught no where near as much as I am now (which I'm thinking got ate by the motor). I always ended up with gunk in my intake tube and my intercooler. The catch cans may work for some people - who knows why but there are different results.

The general consensus every time is that the ONLY way to absolutely be sure that NO oil gets in in the first place is to run breathers and delete the PCV. The ONLY benefit to a remote breather system is to avoid the mess - granted there are those that don't end up with too much of a mess but it depends on the car.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/838410-any-disadvantage-deleting-pcv.html

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/832469-can-i-delete-my-pcv-valves.html

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/2nd-generation-22/795642-oil-catch-can-pcv-mod.html

When it comes to the PCV, no matter the car, it is a matter of opinion it seems. The topic has been beaten to death here so I'll stop after this post unless anyone has questions about this actual mod.

To anyone who wants to be sure that no oil ever ends up in there intake - remote breather setup. Others who want the easiest way and don't mind a little mess - two breathers. Others who believe that a catch can system will catch everything and don't want to put there PCV back in for inspection - catch cans.

SVT Troy: Capping it at the blower and the lower intake would be ideal. However since the lower intake isn't accessible with the supercharger removed, I personally capped it from the hose running up to the T.

 

[Silver03Termi]

I figured this was going to cause some debate. Yes I ran catch cans before - no it caught no where near as much as I am now (which I'm thinking got ate by the motor). I always ended up with gunk in my intake tube and my intercooler. The catch cans may work for some people - who knows why but there are different results.

The general consensus every time is that the ONLY way to absolutely be sure that NO oil gets in in the first place is to run breathers and delete the PCV. The ONLY benefit to a remote breather system is to avoid the mess - granted there are those that don't end up with too much of a mess but it depends on the car.

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/838410-any-disadvantage-deleting-pcv.html

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/engine-tuning-214/832469-can-i-delete-my-pcv-valves.html

http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/2nd-generation-22/795642-oil-catch-can-pcv-mod.html

When it comes to the PCV, no matter the car, it is a matter of opinion it seems. The topic has been beaten to death here so I'll stop after this post unless anyone has questions about this actual mod.

To anyone who wants to be sure that no oil ever ends up in there intake - remote breather setup. Others who want the easiest way and don't mind a little mess - two breathers. Others who believe that a catch can system will catch everything and don't want to put there PCV back in for inspection - catch cans.

SVT Troy: Capping it at the blower and the lower intake would be ideal. However since the lower intake isn't accessible with the supercharger removed, I personally capped it from the hose running up to the T.

This should be in your first post.