The Mobil 1 Debate: Synthetic or Not?

I felt compelled to confirm the info about Mobil 1 that Hissman brought to our attention because there is so much info on the internet that contradicts it. I figured you guys would be interested because M1 is probably the most widely used oil on our forum. It really took some digging but I eventually found the inside dirt! Here it is, it goes on for 23 pages: http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=749606&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

I read most of it and it is quite interesting and dramatic, that is if you're kind of a nerd like me. If you want the cliff notes version: synthetic oils were considered to be of a Group IV or V base stock (non-mineral stock) but in 1997 Castrol highly refined a mineral oil (this is called Group III, hydrocracked) and called it a synthetic, claiming that hydrocracked oil resembles nothing found in nature. ln response Exxon Mobil filed a complaint with the National Advertising Division (NAD) of the Council of Better Business Bureaus. The NAD decided that the evidence "constitutes a reasonable basis for the claim that Castrol Syntec, as currently formulated, is a synthetic motor oil". So Group III oils have been termed "full synthetics" for quite some time in the US. Keep in mind that Group III oils can not be called synthetic in Europe. Here is a good post I found on that oil forum: "I have known for a fact Mobil 1 has been mostly group III basestock as far back as NOV. 2004. And YES this includes the regular Mobil 1 and the EP formula also. Now I know people will ask who I work for, sorry I cant let that out, I have four mouths to feed and I wont jeopardize that. Let (me) make this clear I am not a Mobil hater and they are doing nothing illegal, thanks to Castrol group III is termed a full synthetic."

Now that being said, the man who actually analyzed and blew the whistle on the M1 formulation had this to say: "Using Group III is a smart move for a business and not really a betrayal. Oil companies are not selling a formula, they are selling a performance level, and are free to change the formulation anytime they please so long as their claims match the performance level they are selling. To my knowledge EM (Exxon Mobil) has never claimed that their synthetic oils have no Group III (I think many would disagree on this point), only that they are based on “synthetic” base oils including PAOs (Group IV). It would be foolish for a company to take such a definitive stand against a class of chemistry as it closes the door forever on them changing their minds or responding to market trends. The purists have inferred from their statements that they would never use a Group III, perhaps because they wanted to believe it, but EM did nothing wrong in my humble opinion. As for the price, value is determined by each buyer. I am willing to pay more for M1, not because of its composition, but because I respect their history, quality, and reputation. There is value in that name that I will shell out a few more bucks for, just as many people continue to buy the Castrol Group III synthetics."

According to his research it appears that the current formulation of Mobil 1 is a blend of Group III, IV and V base stocks. It is unclear whether or not this current formulation is superior or inferior to any previous formulations but what is clear is that the use of Group III base stock in Mobil 1 reduces cost. However, as we all know, there has been no reduction in the retail prices to reflect this... shocker.

yup it is all just semantics. once castrol and these other companies started coming out with what they called "synthetic" they opened the door for the companies who were manufacturing true synthetic to go the easier and cheaper route.

i dunno man, something ain't right bout that shit...

although i am sure that the use of the current mobil 1 in a regular daily driven car will have similar benefits to the longevity of the engine as a true full synthetic.

interesting...

SO who now makes a full true synthetic??

no one probably... seriosuly this is the last straw... first they want us to pay 3.00 a gallon for gas and nnow they lie bout the oil they sell us... F*** THEM!!!!!!

i think that i have read that amsoil or royal purple is considered what synthetic used to mean

ViciousJay said:

no one probably... seriosuly this is the last straw... first they want us to pay 3.00 a gallon for gas and nnow they lie bout the oil they sell us... F*** THEM!!!!!!

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$3.00 a gallon?? I wish, its $3.70 over here.

mystic04 said:

SO who now makes a full true synthetic??

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It's rumoured that Royal Purple and Amsoil (25K interval) are Group IV oils and Redline is a Group V oil. But I say rumoured because who really knows what any current formulation is unless a sample has been recently analyzed, which is quite an expensive and painstaking process I might add... and the corporations know this so I wouldn't take their word for it :shrug:

I've asked Lucas what they're using for base stock(s) but haven't heard any word back yet.

I just bought two 4 qt. jugs of M1, I just hope that it performs as well as it always has for me. I will probably be switching to Redline or RP on the next change though. I still have not used the jugs, so I could still return them I guess.

-Jeff

Interesting. I've been using mobil 1 for the life of my car, I might consider switching.

Hey Jeff. I have been using Amsoil in the 90 GT for about 12 - 13 years. I have never had a problem with it. I tried Mobil 1 once and liked to never got it to drain out during the next oil change it took well over and hour for it to drain out. I have run Amsoil in my 2000 F-150 with 5.4 and my 95 Lincoln with DOHC 4.6 also with No problems. If you use their filters which filter a lot more finer particles out it is worth the price of an oil change. You can log on to Amsoil and become a dealer for less than $25.00 and save a bunch of money. I know one coal trucking firm in this area that uses it in ll their trucks and is where I first learned about it about 15 -16 years ago. They showed me a fully equiped work truck with crane, air compressor, welder, boxed sides and all the tools they need to repair a 18 wheeler out on the road and it had never had it Amsoil oil changed in its motor. They only changed the filter and added the necessary oil to the motor every 12,500 miles. When they showed me the truck and what the oil looked like in it, it ad over 80,000 miles on it. The oil still looked clean. Its about time for me to change the 90s oil. It has been in the car 2 years and about 1,000 miles and still looks clean. I don't believe you will go wrong with it.

Here are some links to research with.

http://www.amsoil.com/lit/g393.pdf

http://www.amsoil.com/performancetests/g1971/index.aspx

Thanks for the links!!

I am an Amsoil Preferred member now

Over the next year that should save me quite a bit. Between the Cobra, the TBSS and my Ninja I should be ordering a lot of oil.

-Jeff

HISSMAN said:

I am an Amsoil Preferred member now

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+1... ordered 12 quarts, two filters, and membership last week. :thumbsup:

The membership fee was $20.00, But I saved a little more than that, so it is offset now. From here on I will save about $20-$35 on every order that I make if I continue to order the same quantities. Not a bad deal really.

-Jeff

Amsoil baby! :rockon:

What grade Amsoil do you guys recommend? I use M1 5W-30 now.

Personally, I use Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30. I've been using it year round for the past 45-50k miles.

I-CAN-STANG said:

Personally, I use Amsoil Series 2000 0W-30. I've been using it year round for the past 45-50k miles.

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+1