Mildly modifying ´03 Cobra for open track, please help!

So my brother bought my ´03 KB Cobra and wants to do some open trak. It´s his saturday night car, but instead of having a street racer he was suspension upgrades for better conering capabilities.

We´ve been talking about a Maximum Suspension Open Track kit, lowering it and some Open Track tires.

There isn´t really a budget. What would you suggest buying, in terms of:
Suspension upgrade
Subframe connectors
Tires (More track than street)


We would very much like some constructive advise. Hope you can help :beer:

Henrik

Think about doing some serious cooling mods FIRST!
I would then pulley the boost down to about 13PSI. adjust the tune for about 11.2 to 11.0 air fuel ratio, make sure you have an aftermarket engine coolant temp gauge.

Check out the mods in the link in my sig--> ON PAGE 3

I'm running stock suspension except for the Delrin and a few MM bolt on pieces.
I'm running stock springs and shocks, fronts cut 1/4 coil, rears cut 1/3 of a coil. (see pic)






Looks like this on Kumho 710s..

Thanks Jimmy, great advise. I didn´t cooling was such a big issue on the cars when OT´ing. We are really new to this. Went once in my old Saleen, that´s it.

So what you suggest buying is:
LFP Extreme Duty Radiator
LFP Extreme Dual Pass Intercooler Heat Exchanger
Even Flow Gen I Head Cooling Mod
Canton Mustang Aluminium Coolant Expansion Tank
Canton Intercooler Intercooler Expansion Tank
and ofcourse the coolant gauge?

He will be driving on track for the first time i April in about 45F with 15 min. passes, is cooling going to be a big issue so early in the season? Of course the gauge is a must. I know you advised me for a reason so probably a dumb question.

The suspension kit we have been debating a bit on is the MM Road and track box containing:

The Road & Track Box includes the following parts:
MM Strut Tower Brace
MM 4-Point K-Member Brace
MM Full Length Subframe Connectors
H&R Race Springs
Bilstein HD front struts
Bilstein HD rear shocks
MM Caster/Camber Plates
MM Urethane IRS Subframe Bushings
Front spring isolators
Rear spring isolators
Solid Steering Shaft
MM Aluminum Rack Bushings, center drilled
Front Swaybar bushings
Front Swaybar end link bushing kit
Front control arm bushings, urethane

Would you consider the as overkill or a good purchase?

Thank for your help, it is most appreciated. :beer:

BTW Great look car! I have seen it tons of times on here. Can´t help stopping for a moment admirering her!

Viking said:

Thanks Jimmy, great advise. I didn´t cooling was such a big issue on the cars when OT´ing. We are really new to this. Went once in my old Saleen, that´s it.

So what you suggest buying is:
LFP Extreme Duty Radiator eventually or a Fluidyne
LFP Extreme Dual Pass Intercooler Heat Exchanger wait and see
Even Flow Gen I Head Cooling Mod wait and see
Canton Mustang Aluminium Coolant Expansion Tank A good item because the stock cap/tank warps if it boils over and then is hell to get sealed again
Canton Intercooler Intercooler Expansion Tank not really needed
and of course the coolant gauge? <---A MUST HAVE ITEM

He will be driving on track for the first time i April in about 45F with 15 min. passes, is cooling going to be a big issue so early in the season? Of course the gauge is a must. I know you advised me for a reason so probably a dumb question.

The suspension kit we have been debating a bit on is the MM Road and track box containing:

The Road & Track Box includes the following parts:
MM Strut Tower Brace No if you go coil overs later then ok
MM 4-Point K-Member Brace Yes
MM Full Length Subframe Connectors Yes or better ones
H&R Race Springs No
Bilstein HD front struts No
Bilstein HD rear shocks No
MM Caster/Camber Plates Yes
MM Urethane IRS Subframe Bushings No use AC427COBRA's kit with Delrin, Aluminum and UHMWP or wait on it for now
http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260665
Front spring isolators no
Rear spring isolators no
Solid Steering Shaft yes the MM unit
MM Aluminum Rack Bushings, center drilled yes
Front Swaybar bushings no
Front Swaybar end link bushing kit no
Front control arm bushings, urethane no do Delrin or do nothing

Would you consider the as overkill or a good purchase? (Over kill for now even with my highlighted responses)

Thank for your help, it is most appreciated. :beer:

Click to expand...

I am going to advise the minimalist approach for now for several reasons.

1. Let's let him get his feet wet first and make sure this is what he wants to do.
2. A 15 minute session may not put you into limp or "SPEW" mode.(overheat)
3. Different tracks and different drivers will load heat into the cooling system differently. He is brand new and most likely will not be going that hard.
4. 45* F is probably not going to be a problem.

I feel that brake cooling ducts are a GREAT first mod. No matter what level you are at, they are of major benefit and a nice added safety mod.
They allow the use of street and street/track type brake pads even when the driver has started to become faster. They also prolong pad life and provide cooling air to the front hub area which can get quite hot and heat shortens bearing life.

If he is thinking about doing this a lot I would seriously consider a Canton road race oil pan.

Radiator air flow enhancements such as boxing in the entering air pathway so all the air coming in has to go through the rad and not around it.

I would do suspension LAST!
Other than these minor mods...
MM caster camber plates
MM solid rack bushings
Full length high quality sub frame connectors. Global West, Griggs, agent 47, something with jacking rails will make tire changes easier and rigidity greater.

After about 4 or 5 events(usually 8 20 minute sessions each here in the states) you wil know much better where to target you expenditures.

After you/he are hooked you will find that fuel, pads, and tires are eating a good amount of your budget. That is the main reason NOT to go mod crazy right off the bat. Plus a lot of newbs buy stuff they don't need, or don't need yet.

A driver will learn MUCH FASTER in a relatively stock car with street tires!
Concentrate on getting the driver as much practice as possible and then for the car concentrate on making it durable first.

I had 5 years of Ice Racing experience in a 78 Ford Fiesta and about 10 years of autocross, so I moved up into faster run groups a little quicker than most "normal" people, because I already knew the car control portion.(slides and recovery) The lines obviously are totally different between a FWD 1600 pound Ice Car and a 3900 pound high powered RWD car on asphalt.

I ran bone stock for almost 3 years with just SFCs, and brake cooling ducts. http://www.svtperformance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295546
Now I will admit I did not run more than 1 event a year back then, but I had a blast and learned some tricks to keep the car cool.

Shift early, at 4500 to 5k this will keep the heating down.
Put the vent function on full heat, aim the vents out the passenger window.
If it does start to a little get hot on you/him shift up into 5th on the straights and use part throttle to just cruise down to the next corner, then you can get back on it in the twisties where most of the fun is anyway.
..

Cooling, SFC, brakes and suspention. In that order :banana:

Oh, and most importantly. Have fun.

Jimmy has given you some great advice! :thumbsup: I'd read it over several times! :read:

One thing you need to remember is the fact that a stock car is WAY more capable than a noob driver. Learn to drive the car totally stock, on stock tires. If it by chance overheats on your first outing, you need to back out of WOT for a little bit. There is plenty more to learn while your car cools down.

I would say the most important mods are in this order:

A good helmet
Front brake cooling
An attitude to learn and listen to your instructors
An attitude to be able to resist having to pass everyone on track until you learn more

That's about it!

FWIW

:thumbsup::coolman::beer:

I will second (third?) what Jimmy and Bruce are telling you. Like Jimmy, I started running track days with a totally stock car complete with OEM tires (nasty things that they were). I changed the brake fluid (an absolute must in my opinion) and installed a set of Hawk HPS brake pads, bought a good quality helmet and headed to the track. I ran my first 3 track days in that configuration and I learned that for all its faults, the car was significantly more capable on track than I was. :loser:

If possible, I would definitely advise finding an event with actual classroom instruction rather than just track time for your brother's first event. He will benefit greatly from having a proper base of knowledge to build upon once he gets behind the wheel.

Good luck... this track stuff is addictive! :beer:

Rick

1)pads (I like Hawk)
2)Brake fluid (I've raced with Motorcraft HD nee Ford HD for years, but I understand they changed formula recently or at least rating, so I'll use up what I have and then go to Wilwood 600. Great stuff, but Ford HD was SOOOo cheap)
3)dedicated tires and wheels (I like Hoosiers)
4)brake cooling ( I don't have but could use, I guess. Not such an issue with right pad)
5)engine cooling ( we have to use plain water, but I add a bottle of RedLine WaterWetter, street just flush before season starts and use less antifreeze and a bottle of WaterWetter. No sense sliding in your own....stuff if you do overheat, lose a hose or whatever.)
6)Suspension (I'd start with fresh shocks/ struts)

I agree with Jimmy. I roadrace and don't have 1/3 of that stuff.;-)

All of the advice above is good stuff !! I have run 14 events now and here is my list so far

1. Brake fluid, complete flush with new Ford HP Fluid every event !!!
2. A good 4 wheel alignment - made huge difference in my car !
3. Brake cooling ducts, a must for more street/track oriented pads
4. AC427cobra's (Bruce) Alum. front and derilin rear diff. mounts
5. Water temp gauge - It will let you know when it's time to back down BEFORE the dreaded "limp" mode.
6. 5K rpm shifts and use 5th gear on the long straights - unless you really need to pass that Vette/GTO:banana:
7. Listen to your instructor
8. Have fun
8. Listen to your instructor
9. Have fun

It will be awhile before a beginer will be able to out drive the 03-04 Cobra!! Mine is still 100% stock suspension other than the diff mounts and it is still a blast, it suprises instructors and other students with it's capabilities - so enjoy:beer:

Rick brings up a good point. Henrik, you don't say where you and your brother want to try this. I hope they have good instruction and classroom sessions where ever it is.
This is an ongoing learning experience, and starting out right sets the basis for good learning patterns (wow, some of my teacher/wife must be rubbing off on me).

Have fun and be safe.

Wow I am really amazed by the time you take to advise us how to start up doing this. I spoke with my brother and he does not know how to thank you. You have saved him for so much money and wrong doings!:beer:

He is actually relatively skilled on a track, he has been to about 15 track days on his bike. But on the last day of the season, last year he crashed his bike on the highway and broke his hand 14 places, a rip and a punctured lounge. This meant that he promised his wife not to put his family in such a situation again and dropped motorcycleling. He did not say any thing about cars! :lol1:
Anyway what I am trying to say is that he knows about driving on the track, but not in a car and we have no idea about building a good solid afforable track car. This is why I took the liberty of approaching you guys.:beer:
Thanks a lot.

We are going to do exactly what you have told us. It would be very ignorent to think that we know better.

We are going to make a purchase list this week. I will post it here and hopefully one of you experienced guys can aprove it.

I know that the car is probably more than plenty for him right now, less cooling, but it is also fun building it and knowing that it is as good as it gets. I hope you know what I mean.

BTW he is having an instructure for the first 4 passes.

Props to you guys! :rockon:

Viking said:

Wow I am really amazed by the time you take to advise us how to start up doing this. I spoke with my brother and he does not know how to thank you. You have saved him for so much money and wrong doings!:beer:

He is actually relatively skilled on a track, he has been to about 15 track days on his bike. But on the last day of the season, last year he crashed his bike on the highway and broke his hand 14 places, a rip and a punctured lounge. This meant that he promised his wife not to put his family in such a situation again and dropped motorcycleling. He did not say any thing about cars! :lol1:
Anyway what I am trying to say is that he knows about driving on the track, but not in a car and we have no idea about building a good solid afforable track car. This is why I took the liberty of approaching you guys.:beer:
Thanks a lot.

We are going to do exactly what you have told us. It would be very ignorent to think that we know better.

We are going to make a purchase list this week. I will post it here and hopefully one of you experienced guys can aprove it.

I know that the car is probably more than plenty for him right now, less cooling, but it is also fun building it and knowing that it is as good as it gets. I hope you know what I mean.

BTW he is having an instructure for the first 4 passes.

Props to you guys! :rockon:

Click to expand...

GOOD FOR YOU!!!! That is the correct attitude for sustained enjoyable and safe open track go fast activities!!!:rockon::beer:

He will already know most of the proper lines but will not know the weight management issues(these cars are heavy and need to be gingerly handled) and 4 wheel car control(unless it snows there as much as it does in Syracuse NY!)

The weight will take some adjusting to. Yet the weight and the structural strength it brings to the party is one of the good things about tracking this car.
It really is a very safe and robust chassis!
It does however require a very smooth driving technique.

I came from AMA racing dirt bikes, so I had some habits I had to relearn. Like throwing the rearend into a corner and then squaring it off.:banana:
Actually, I still kinda do the squaring off thing. Just don't slide the car in. ;-)
I started racing cars after breaking too many bones racing bikes. It was getting harder and harder to get to work Monday mornings.
Was going to go motorcyle roadracing in 1984 and found about about SCCA. Knock on wood, haven't broke a bone since. Wrecked some cars, but no bones.

Seriously, it's all fun!