What a difference a suspension makes

Over the winter I finally put my track whore '92 coupe up on stands and changed out virtually everything underneath. Out went the stock front A-arms with Delrin bushings and 800-lb springs, the Global West rears with cut B springs, and in went a Maximum Motorsports K-member and front coilovers with #325 fronts, and a panhard bar, torque arm, adjustable rear LCA's with 350-lb rears, a Canton road race pan, and Mid-Continent Mustang brake ducts.

Maiden voyage to MAM netted me a little under 2 second improvement on last years' tires and as the day came to an exhausting end (175 track miles later), I realize I'm on the upside of the learning curve, getting rid of old habits and learning how to trust what the car can do now.

Meanwhile, I shared some track time with a couple other foxbodies. The maroon one in this vid has a torque arm and panhard bar (and drums!), but a fairly stock front end. Diiiiiiig that understeer! The blue one has a Cobra IRS in the rear and something like Kenny Brown front springs and c/c plates and so on. The owner was not the one driving in this vid though lol. I was pretty impressed with the behavior of the IRS foxbody and I thought the other one was a classic illustration of what happens when you "fix" the rear end of these cars without fixing the front end, as I almost did this winter.

[ame="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/92-50-Mustang-on-track-with-other-foxbodies-at-MA_156961.htm"]92 5.0 Mustang on track with other foxbodies at MA - Video[/ame]

The car looks very stable in the corners. It's amazing what an upgrade to coilovers will do.

Smooth.:beer:
The hardest thing to teach students is if you are sawing on the wheel, you've missed your turn in. Patience. I like to see constant wheel movement left to right. Also not locking on to the line the car in front of you is using. I've seen more than one driver follow the car in front off into the dirt. That and driver hesistation when you commit. Had a buddy put a good move on a car at Barber and then take us into the gravel when he waited too long to brake trying to get back on line. The pass was made, so he controlled the corner. He should have done his braking off line and let the other guy back off.

I'm in the middle of installing my MM panhard bar this weekend. My front only consists of H&R race springs, Tokico Illumina struts, and Griggs c/c plates. MM says the rear is where you need to start on SN95 Mustangs. All I could afford was longtubes, tune and the panhard bar this year. Coilovers will have to wait until next winter. I noticed you are apexing slightly too soon. It takes one to know one! I am trying to break that habit this year. Your car does look solid...no apparent body roll from the video.

Not sure I saw any early apexes. Again that usually is followed by pulling on the wheel trying to tighten the line.
I think the greatest thing I overheard when I was getting my comp license was another racer telling my instructor, "Yeah, I'd race with him."
As far as Fraser, "Yeah, I'd race with him."

While I occasionally victimize myself with early apexing, and I remember specifically a handful of times when I did it on this trip, passengers or observers will be hard pressed to find me making a habit of it and I'm not sure how much of it made it to these videos. When it happens, it's usually because I haven't kept my vision far enough ahead of the car. There's one corner on the track, (turn 3, long right-hander after the main straight) visible when I'm behind the maroon mustang, the silver M3, and the blue R32, which is an extreme late apex that takes a TON of patience to nail correctly, and when they (or I) don't, it's a huge time sucker and a great place to gain ground if it were a race situation. As David Hester says, you can see when it happens because I'll usually respond by lifting off the gas to tighten my line, which is almost always all it takes but which kills momentum.

I didn't have the sound on, but a lift to alter your line isn't maybe as bad as steering back and forth which really scrubs and upsets the car. Another thing I noticed was cars being overtaken generally kept their line. REALLY bad when you go to pass or be passed and the lead car alters their line just as you make your move. :uh oh:

David Hester said:

REALLY bad when you go to pass or be passed and the lead car alters their line just as you make your move. :uh oh:

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You mean like this guy? :cuss: [ame="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/92-mustang-50-on-MAM-road-course-with-yellow-C5-c_157301.htm"]92 mustang 5.0 on MAM road course with yellow C5 c - Video[/ame]

Mr Hester makes a great point about not getting sucked into following the line of the car in front of you.....I need to work on that.

At the big track at willow springs a friend was focusing on the car in front of him, well they both went off in turn 9 at about 80mph. They did go straight off, by the way that is the place when you do try and save it most of the time it shoots you across track towards a ditch where many cars have rolled.

TroyV said:

Mr Hester makes a great point about not getting sucked into following the line of the car in front of you.....I need to work on that.

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I follow lines of people who are faster than me in corners, with nearly the same car type/weight.

I have found that faster dissimilar cars like Cayman S cars or AWD cars will take lines I can not.

It is very difficult to stay focused and drive YOUR LINES when you are catching one of these cars however.
It is something I am also working on.:beer:

..

You mean like this guy?
Well, yes and no.
He did alter his line just as you got ready to jump, but he DID follow the racing line (turn-in track-out)
Track days aren't racing so maybe not everyone knows all the rules, but
racing, we have to assume the guy in front is going to stay on the racing line and we can pass off line.... Sorta like you did.;-)
I think I mentioned going from "Dam* A/Sedan driver" to "courteous A/Sedan driver". Racing with the same guys all the time, the other drivers know I pretty much stay on line, unless I've given a point by and move off to give room. The guys in the video were 550 to 650 hp. 200-300hp more than me. I stayed on line and lifted to let them go by and was able to drop back in behind them before I got to the corner.
Butch (camera car) is an old friend. Same corner, same cars a few years back. Same situation.
I see Butch behind me coming out of 5 and point him by. He stays put about 20 feet off my right rear. OTAY I think. Just as we get to the braking zone at 6, Butch pulls under me and I see a GT-1 car about 10 feet off his bumper. This is the braking zone, so I'm slowing but the GT-1 car isn't to my direct right. I either have to go straight off and headlong into the concrete wall-not an option- or turn in on him. He finally gets turned, I turn in and tap his rear bumper. He drops 2 wheels off driver's side and I tuck in behind him. He turns in for 7 but doesn't have traction on the left side (still in the grass) and spins across track. I can't stop so I steer where he was and he finally slides off the track driver's left and out of the way. I check my mirrors up the hill to 8 to see if he saved it. Nope. And Butch is off in the distance ahead. <sigh> Good times.:beer:
I raced AMA Enduros and Hare Scrambles with a couple of moto-x's thrown in back in the 70's-mid-80's. I tend to square off many corners, much like I did back then. It's all classic racing line, but I've notice buddys that sweep corners more that I do. I go for the turn-in-track-out turn-in-track-out. Turn 1 and Turn 2 at Roebling comes to mind. A long sweeping right hander into a hard right.
Double apex to me.
Mr Hester
I'm an old fart, but Mr Hester was my grandfather, I'm Dave, BTW. ;^)

SKMCOBRA said:

I'm in the middle of installing my MM panhard bar this weekend. My front only consists of H&R race springs, Tokico Illumina struts, and Griggs c/c plates. MM says the rear is where you need to start on SN95 Mustangs. All I could afford was longtubes, tune and the panhard bar this year. Coilovers will have to wait until next winter. I noticed you are apexing slightly too soon. It takes one to know one! I am trying to break that habit this year. Your car does look solid...no apparent body roll from the video.

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I think that as you improve the handling on your car the way MFE has, you will be apexing earlier and carrying more speed into and through the corner. I found his lines very good, there are a couple places for small improvments that I see, anything else is hard to judge without feeling what the car is doing.

Excellent driving MFE!!

Brian

I particularily enjoyed watching the Corvette NOT brake where he was supposed to be braking (in the braking zones) and brake where he should NOT be braking! (turn-ins and apexes) :lol:

Cobra-R said:

I think that as you improve the handling on your car the way MFE has, you will be apexing earlier and carrying more speed into and through the corner. I found his lines very good, there are a couple places for small improvments that I see, anything else is hard to judge without feeling what the car is doing.

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Very good point. Do you happen to know John from Dallas who was the 2005 AI Texas champion? He owns Chicane23.com and that's where I order my parts from. Very cool guy.

I think that as you improve the handling on your car the way MFE has, you will be apexing earlier and carrying more speed into and through the corner.

Careful! Early apexing can be expensive.

Girlfriend (now wife) turned into a corner a tad early. Problem it was at a hillclimb with no runoff.
And no, it didn't buff out.

David Hester said:

I think that as you improve the handling on your car the way MFE has, you will be apexing earlier and carrying more speed into and through the corner.

Careful! Early apexing can be expensive.

Girlfriend (now wife) turned into a corner a tad early. Problem it was at a hillclimb with no runoff.
And no, it didn't buff out.

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Wow, you still married her? j/k

TroyV said:

Mr Hester makes a great point about not getting sucked into following the line of the car in front of you.....I need to work on that.

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Don't we all. :bash:

Cobra-R said:

Wow, you still married her? j/k

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I married my G/F after she dumped one of our bikes braking for turn 1 at Summit main. (Maybe it was the guilt from having just rebuilt her brakes and mounting a brand new tire before the session). :nonono:

The beginning of this video has a decent shot of my car from outside last night at heartland park as a buddy in his Viper gets close enough to earn a point-by. The car has so much less body roll, and so much less ridiculous negative camber on the inside wheel in corners, that people assumed I just wasn't pushing hard.
[ame="http://videos.streetfire.net/video/HPT-Touring-Club-2008_157756.htm"]HPT Touring Club 2008 - Video[/ame]

That Porsche 944 he passed was in front of me, another fully-prepared, trailered race car that couldn't put any distance on me for 10 laps at a time. Unfortunately I'm about to sledgehammer my video camera for ****ing up when I need it most and I didn't capture any of it on video.

:lol1:
yes, but she doesn't drive anymore. Just crew chief.


Funny how we do stuff when we feel guilty. :shrug:
(Maybe it was the guilt from having just rebuilt her brakes and mounting a brand new tire before the session).