Who Says You Have to Lose HP Thru an Auto? GT500/4R100 Swap

Coonsnake

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For all of you who are curious, here's the latest on the 08 GT500 / 4R100 transmission swap:

As many of you know, the car was sent to Brian's Truck Shop in Lead Hill, AR for the transmission wiring and custom tuning. After an eight hour drive, we were really hoping to conclude the tuning today but we ran into typical issues that only let us get so far. BTS finished the installation of the PCS transmission controller and took it for a test drive. During the transmission tune, he realized that the trans cooler that had been installed by the previous shop was too small and would not flow enough fluid, causing the front pump of the transmission to fail only a couple of days ago.

Brian Thompson (BTS) removed the transmission and went through it from front to back repairing the front pump and installing the proper heavy-duty trans cooler needed. During the year that the car was down awaiting completion, BTS actually made improvements to their 4R100 transmissions enabling them to hold even more power which he then applied to my transmission while it was out. Brian not only removed the transmission, but he rebuilt and reinstalled everything in twelve hours. There's no way we could have pulled this off without that kind of dedication.

With the help of Jon Lund, we had a remote tuning session and got the car tuned on the BTS DynoJet with 22.5 PSI and 18.5 degrees of timing. The car made 723rwhp SAE and 674 ft/lbs of torque at a maximum of 6,000 rpm on VP109. Due to lack of fuel system (stock GT500 pumps, Fore fuel rails and 80lb injectors) we hit a wall and weren't able to push it any further. We wanted do a back-to-back comparison with the Shell URT fuel vs the VP109 but with the pumps at 100% duty cycle, we had to call it a day.

On a previous dyno, the car made 778/776 with 23PSI and 20 degrees of timing at 6500 rpm with the factory TR6060 transmission. This proves that with adequate fuel and the same timing, the car should make similar numbers even with an automatic transmission WITH overdrive. Through Brian's innovation and advanced knowledge of this transmission, we were able to replace the factory six-speed with a 4R100 automatic and see no real horsepower loss. This is the same transmission that has been seen in diesel drag trucks making well over 1,000rwhp and 1,500 ft/lbs of torque with unsurpassed durability and a company that stands behind their product if it does fail. Point blank - this is one bad ass tranny!

So now we need to remedy our fuel situation by installing a Kenne Bell BAP and lowering the boost to around 20 PSI and add some timing to show the full potential of the Shell URT Advanced. The power goal is 750/720 and hopefully achieve mid 9 second ET's safely. The next stop is Stang-Hi in Baton Rouge once the BAP is installed for another Lund remote tuning session to finish it up and see what this one-off setup is going to do. We'll keep everyone updated on the progress.

We couldn't be more thankful to have Brian and Patti of BTS and Jon Lund on our team. This is an awesome and HONEST group of people, which in this business honesty and integrity are hard to find.
 

me32

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Sweet. I bet you can't wait to run it when its all done.
 

F8L SN8K

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So a 1/2 pound of boost and 1.5* of timing is worth 55 rwhp and 102Ft/lb? Or was the numbers miss typed? Did you have enough fuel before the auto swap or is the car making more flywheel HP now to require more fuel?

Congrats on getting it all set-up have a blast let us know the track results and how much you like it on the street. Many people are wanting to do the same thing in their cars so first hand experience could be helpful for them. Cheers
 

Catmonkey

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Coonsnake, what PCM are they using to control the transmission or do they have a stand alone controller?
 

Coonsnake

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no typo, the 778/776 were the numbers i was given by the first tuner, also diff dyno, and they pulled it to 6500. i know its very hard to compare two different dynos and different tuners but this was the information i was given by one and witnessed first hand by the other.

Im using a PCS TCM 2000 to tune the tranny
 

Ry_Trapp0

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your leaving WAY too many variables on the table to conclude that the auto swap is as efficient as the 6 speed.
great post though, BTS does DAMN fine diesel work!
 

Proto

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Been waiting to see someone use a 4r100!! I would just use a manual valve body and call it a day if possible


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Coonsnake

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With the variables being 1.5* less timing that should be a 20hp loss at least. The car being pulled 500 rpms less should be around 30 hp also, by looking at hp from 5500 to 6000. Thats 50 hp left on the table.

Jon did mention the only way the other tuner made the 778 with stock pumps was cause the fp had to have been dropped which is very unsafe from his explanation.

At the moment there is no transbrake available. Im really glad though not to see a big 100hp loss
 

86merc

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Does the trans have a converter that is locked on those pulls? If it is not locked up what kind of converter slip were you seeing up top?

As far as the comparisons there is too many variables to really know for sure what is going on. But I am going to bet you will love the way the auto drives as well as the ET/MPH at the track. Good luck!
 

Ironhand

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Someone actually makes a plug and play trans controller for alot of the 4&5 speed trannies now. Its not that new.

The 4R100s you want are off of the back of 6.8L V10s and Lightnings. They have the upgraded 6 pinion front planet gear set, etc. The ones from the 5.4s and 4.6s only have a 4 pinion front planet, etc.

Its also not the same as a diesel 4R100 because of the bellhousing. It is a standard Non PTO case with diesel internals.
 

Coonsnake

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The convertor was locked completely on the dyno pulls

This tranny is the same housing as the lightnings, it does have the upgraded 6 planetary gears, they are 4130 chrome molly gears and clutch drum. Dont know all exact specs and up grades to this tranny but he gaurantees it will hold over 1000hp, he said if i break it he will fix it free of no charge.

I wanted a completely streetable overdrive tranny that you can put in drive and just give it the gas, just like the lightning trucks, that will handle the power of a cobrajet motor one day
 

PistolWhip

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Regardless of the variables and this or that, that car is gonna feel amazing with all that power and the smooth acceleration of an auto. Congrats man, your gonna have a blast with it. As specially if you can get a break made for it.
 

Ry_Trapp0

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With the variables being 1.5* less timing that should be a 20hp loss at least. The car being pulled 500 rpms less should be around 30 hp also, by looking at hp from 5500 to 6000. Thats 50 hp left on the table.

Jon did mention the only way the other tuner made the 778 with stock pumps was cause the fp had to have been dropped which is very unsafe from his explanation.

At the moment there is no transbrake available. Im really glad though not to see a big 100hp loss
you gotta account for the dyno runs occuring on different days, and you also said that they were done on different dynos as well. not saying that your wrong about the efficiency of the trans, but there's just too much to assume to make that conclusion.
 

Illtaketwlight

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Snake cool project. I consider this a few years ago but decided against it after some long and hard thinking. Trying to get both PCM's to work together a 100% will be a job. Maybe more money than its worth. I still have a complete 4r100 out of a lightning in my shop ready to drop in, PI converter and all. My thought was the best way to do this swap would be to install a complete Lightning wiring harness and PCM. You would say good by to ABS, Pats key, T/Control, return less fuel system and the hated DBW T/body. But the best part is, it could be tuned in an hour by Joe blow dyno shop and would be a very simple and fast car. That would have killer drivability. GL with it and keep us informed. Thanks
 

rdsnk46

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Snake cool project. I consider this a few years ago but decided against it after some long and hard thinking. Trying to get both PCM's to work together a 100% will be a job. Maybe more money than its worth. I still have a complete 4r100 out of a lightning in my shop ready to drop in, PI converter and all. My thought was the best way to do this swap would be to install a complete Lightning wiring harness and PCM. You would say good by to ABS, Pats key, T/Control, return less fuel system and the hated DBW T/body. But the best part is, it could be tuned in an hour by Joe blow dyno shop and would be a very simple and fast car. That would have killer drivability. GL with it and keep us informed. Thanks

Two words, JON LUND!

All the Joe Blows are just that..........

As much as I dislike an auto in the GT500 it's mandatory for the ultra fast cars like Shelby Mark. I hope your bottom 9 second pass is fun JD!
 

SonicDTR

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Brian at bts is one hell of a guy! He walked me thru a trans solenoid replacment over the phone when i was out of state and didnt ask for a dime. His son Cale is good to work with too, but now has his own diesel shop.
 

PistolWhip

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Snake cool project. I consider this a few years ago but decided against it after some long and hard thinking. Trying to get both PCM's to work together a 100% will be a job. Maybe more money than its worth. I still have a complete 4r100 out of a lightning in my shop ready to drop in, PI converter and all. My thought was the best way to do this swap would be to install a complete Lightning wiring harness and PCM. You would say good by to ABS, Pats key, T/Control, return less fuel system and the hated DBW T/body. But the best part is, it could be tuned in an hour by Joe blow dyno shop and would be a very simple and fast car. That would have killer drivability. GL with it and keep us informed. Thanks

How much weight difference is there bwtween the 4R100 and the 6 speed? The auto, plus all the things you need with it, has to be significantly heavier right?
 

Ry_Trapp0

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As much as I dislike an auto in the GT500 it's mandatory for the ultra fast cars like Shelby Mark. I hope your bottom 9 second pass is fun JD!
hell nah they aren't, you give up too easily...

lenco3s.jpg


:rockon::D
 

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