302S vs Porsche GT3 For Trackers

[RenoPete]

Would appreciate any thoughts on tracking (not racing) a 2013 302S vs a Porsche GT3. I have 100+ track days experience in the street GT3 and never driven a Boss. Specifically looking at buying a 302S for a DE/PDX/TT track day fun car. Looking to run comparatively fast laps while lowering my costs by 80% or so.

Love the idea of of integral cage and race prep from the factory and of course the 302S is beautiful. Base cost is 50%-75% less than comparable GT3.

The GT3 is a mighty fine car but the "Porsche Tax" is a killer on any parts or repair. A 996 Porsche Cup is probably a pretty close comparison to the 302S I would think?

Anyone else out there putting track miles on a 302S/R willing to comment on track times vs the GT3's and how the 302's hold up under heavy use? Are you just buying lubes, filters,, brake rotors and pads? Does the 302S have enough brake?

Thanks for feedback, looking forward to learning.

 

[5 DOT 0]

I have no direct experience with either of those cars but own a Boss and have owned 911's. I considered buying a used 997/GT3 and that "Porsche Tax" is a killer. I also considered a Z06 but in the end really wanted a back seat so my kids could ride around with me so I chose the street Boss. Although this is my first Mustang I've always wanted one and I'm off to a great start.

So far my Boss ownership has been terrific. Not only is this a great community, so is the Porsche community, but you have Ford engineers combing this forums and will jump in and answer questions. You can call or fire off an email to Ford Racing and a knowledgable person will pick up the phone or respond to your email quickly. I've seen the 302S in person several times and it's the real deal. It has the same motor as the street Boss and should be bullet proof. And if it's not you can buy a complete new one for less than the price of a rebuild on a 911. I think what you're looking to do is a great idea.

 

[86Fbody]

I can't speak for the 302S but I have a 2012 302 and I would think you could get lap times close to your GT3 on actual race tracks. I recently raced my 302 at an SCCA AX and I didn't do as well through the course as some of the more nimble cars but when it came to the straights I was definitely able to pick up time that I had lost in the slaloms.

 

[cloud9]

I run with the Nordstern PCA up at BIR quite a bit. I've been giving them so much hell in my modified street Boss that they moved me into their racers & instructors group at the last event. The street Boss is still a couple seconds off a 997 GT3 (same driver) but right there with a 996 GT3. I would think the 302S has to be pretty darn close to the 997. I have 25 track days in my Boss in the past year and it's held up really well. Rotors, pads, tires and fluids so far. It's been pretty much bulletproof and the 302S gets the upgraded Tremec transmission which has supposedly been the weak link in the street car.

 

[RenoPete]

So far my Boss ownership has been terrific. Not only is this a great community, so is the Porsche community, but you have Ford engineers combing this forums and will jump in and answer questions. You can call or fire off an email to Ford Racing and a knowledgable person will pick up the phone or respond to your email quickly. And if it's not you can buy a complete new one for less than the price of a rebuild on a 911. I think what you're looking to do is a great idea.

Good stuff! I have been a bit surprised how little is on the forums about tracking the R and S. GT3 forums are always yakking about tracking. That is really great the Ford factory folks are so accessible. Thanks for the comments!

I can't speak for the 302S but I have a 2012 302 and I would think you could get lap times close to your GT3 on actual race tracks. I recently raced my 302 at an SCCA AX and I didn't do as well through the course as some of the more nimble cars but when it came to the straights I was definitely able to pick up time that I had lost in the slaloms.

Good for you for getting your car out there and exercising it, lots of folks just do cars and coffee Driving the car is where the real fun is :-D

I run with the Nordstern PCA up at BIR quite a bit. I've been giving them so much hell in my modified street Boss that they moved me into their racers & instructors group at the last event. The street Boss is still a couple seconds off a 997 GT3 (same driver) but right there with a 996 GT3. I would think the 302S has to be pretty darn close to the 997. I have 25 track days in my Boss in the past year and it's held up really well. Rotors, pads, tires and fluids so far. It's been pretty much bulletproof and the 302S gets the upgraded Tremec transmission which has supposedly been the weak link in the street car.

Thanks for that feedback! Keep giving them hell to keep them humble is what I say :-D

Your street Boss has some weight going against it vs a stock GT3 so it is understandable it would be a couple seconds off pace. Sounds like it has been really dependable, good for Ford for seriously working the bugs out, most stock cars won't take 25 days without breaking stuff.

I am thinking like you that an S at approx 3100lbs wet and 444 hp should be at least as fast as GT3/RS given similar driver skill and equal tires? That is a nearly identical p/w ratio and the Boss has more torque so might pull out of corners better, course Porsche has the rear weight so maybe that is a toss up as well. Bet an R or S on Hoosiers runs times between a GT3 and a Porsche Cup car. That is plenty fast for recreational drivers.

I saw a Boss R for sale in Florida but looks like it sold. Anyone know of a not-crashed R for sale? I looked over the FordRacingParts.com website pretty well and think I understand the differences so would be open minded to either version of the Boss.

 

[5 DOT 0]

For tracking I'd focus on a 302S not the R. The R is designed for endurance racing and is probably overkill for tracking. But then again I'm not opposed to a bit of overkill. There should be little difference in lap times between the two and both use the same stock Boss engine less cats and different tune optimized for race gas. I'm going to guess on race gas they run 20-40 more HP. There's a section dedicated to racing that can be found here.

BTW I'm just over the hill from you in Roseville if you ever want to go for a ride. Just bring your GT3.

BOSS 302, 302S and 302R Racing Forum

 

[RenoPete]

For tracking I'd focus on a 302S not the R. The R is designed for endurance racing and is probably overkill for tracking. But then again I'm not opposed to a bit of overkill. There should be little difference in lap times between the two and both use the same stock Boss engine less cats and different tune optimized for race gas. I'm going to guess on race gas they run 20-40 more HP. There's a section dedicated to racing that can be found here.

BTW I'm just over the hill from you in Roseville if you ever want to go for a ride. Just bring your GT3.

BOSS 302, 302S and 302R Racing Forum

Dang, how did I miss the racing forum link, thanks for posting! Good points, thanks for mentioning.

I may have to make the drive over the hill and we can chat and trade rides :-D Perhaps you would consider coming over to Reno Fernley Raceway June 30/Jul 1 for SCCA PDX and TT? I run with and instruct with them and of course RFR is one of the most awesome tracks on the west coast. If you have never been on track before no problem, sign up for Green Group and we will go let the Boss run free!

 

[TimB]

I race both a Boss 302S and a World Challenge spec 997 GT3 Cup , the Boss S is a great car and quite fast , I think you will have a lot of fun with it and it is way cheaper to run than a GT3. As far as lap times my Cup car laps Pacific Raceways in the low 1:25 range and the S in the mid 1:29's .
My Boss has long tube headers and a few other mods so it is about a second a lap faster than a stock S.
As far as weight , 3100 # wet is light for an S , mine was 3300+without fuel and I have got it down to 3145 with a lexan rear window , one piece driveshaft , carbon fiber doors ,18 lb Braille battery ,race clutch and aluminum front bumper support.

 

[Para81]

:coolman:

 

[cloud9]

I race both a Boss 302S and a World Challenge spec 997 GT3 Cup , the Boss S is a great car and quite fast , I think you will have a lot of fun with it and it is way cheaper to run than a GT3. As far as lap times my Cup car laps Pacific Raceways in the low 1:25 range and the S in the mid 1:29's .
My Boss has long tube headers and a few other mods so it is about a second a lap faster than a stock S.
As far as weight , 3100 # wet is light for an S , mine was 3300+without fuel and I have got it down to 3145 with a lexan rear window , one piece driveshaft , carbon fiber doors ,18 lb Braille battery ,race clutch and aluminum front bumper support.

I thought the S was a little heavier than that. I have my street Boss down to 3530ish with a 4pt roll cage but was wondering where all that additional weight reduction could be coming from. If you've gotten yours down below 3200 that's fantastic.

I was comparing mine to a GT3 street not an RS or Cup car.

 

[TXPD]

i have an fr500c, the 05-09 mustang version of the boss 302r. what is true for an FR is also true for a Boss race car. the replacement race parts are off the shelf ford racing factory parts. available, inexpensive and three days away. the basic body parts are dirt cheap.

a boss replacement motor in the crate is $10K or so? how much is the P car motor?

lastly, drive the mustang and you are an everyman accepted by the larger group. as opposed to the exclusive/elite/1%erness of the Porsche.

 

[5 DOT 0]

Dang, how did I miss the racing forum link, thanks for posting! Good points, thanks for mentioning.

I may have to make the drive over the hill and we can chat and trade rides :-D Perhaps you would consider coming over to Reno Fernley Raceway June 30/Jul 1 for SCCA PDX and TT? I run with and instruct with them and of course RFR is one of the most awesome tracks on the west coast. If you have never been on track before no problem, sign up for Green Group and we will go let the Boss run free!

Thanks for the offer but I'm unavailable that weekend. I'm focused on ThunderHill, Laguna Seca and Sears Point but I'll have to make a trip over to Fernley one of these days. If you're heading over the hill drop me a PM.

Porsche's in general do three things very well. They have awesome brakes, superior steering feedback and put their power down really well. The street Boss 302 does not match the brakes or steering of a Porsche but they do put the power down well. The 302S has better brakes than the street Bosses but I don't know how they compare.

Rick