Warning--> Ford PM1 brake fluid has changed

Since I have been a rather vocal advocate of "The Ford brake fluid formerly known as -- >C6AZ-19542-A"...
REPLACED BY PM-1(When switched to Motorcraft sourcing)

I feel obligated to warn of a recent change in the part number... and more importantly... It's dry boiling point reduction!!!

PM-1 is now PM-1C

PM-1 had a D.B.P. of 550F

PM-1C has a D.B.P. of 500F

I know most of the faster guys have already moved on to better fluids, some with different dyes to make complete flushing easier.

So this is directed more to the growing segment of new guys who may have assumed Ford fluid is still the same old stuff.

It's not... I'm switching.

Be safe out there. :thumbsup:

Good info, I didnt know that and I just bought 3 bottles. Im going to go look and see what I got. Thanks :beer:

Good to know, thanks for the heads up.

Jimmy,

thanks for the info i was looking into it because it is less costly than motul. But now i think i will stick to what i use. Hope to see you on track soon!

Great, I have 2.5 bottles of PM-1C

Is it just me or is Ford unable to do anything right anymore? Even when it comes down to something as simple as "brake fluid." Guess a flush and fluid swap is my next project.

Thanks for the heads up Jimmy. Of course I just installed speed bleeders and flushed my entire systems two weeks ago for the up coming track events. lol I only use Ford fluid, well up to this point. When I used to road race I tried several different brake fluids and read countless articles about which fluids offered what. Ford fluid was the absolute best bang for the buck. I bought 6 bottles when I did the flush. I'll have to see which they are.

99COBRA2881.... I don't really think this is a matter of Ford not doing anything right. They don't market the current fluid as a high performance so 500* boiling point is more than acceptable. It's just unfortunate for us guys that used it for track stuff because that extra 50* could make a big difference.

Darin

Jimmysidecarr said:

Since I have been a rather vocal advocate of "The Ford brake fluid formerly known as -- >C6AZ-19542-A"...
REPLACED BY PM-1(When switched to Motorcraft sourcing)

I feel obligated to warn of a recent change in the part number... and more importantly... It's dry boiling point reduction!!!

PM-1 is now PM-1C

PM-1 had a D.B.P. of 550F

PM-1C has a D.B.P. of 500F

I know most of the faster guys have already moved on to better fluids, some with different dyes to make complete flushing easier.

So this is directed more to the growing segment of new guys who may have assumed Ford fluid is still the same old stuff.

It's not... I'm switching.

Be safe out there. :thumbsup:

Click to expand...

Dry boiling point is all fine and good but the much more important rating is the wet boiling point. Any idea if that has changed?

b_tone said:

Dry boiling point is all fine and good but the much more important rating is the wet boiling point. Any idea if that has changed?

Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure that probably changed as well... But I'm at home now... and all I have here is PM-1.

I'll get back to you if someone else doesn't beat me to it...

And thanks for bringing up a very good point!!!

Even though we change our fluid before every event... unless you did it that morning... it's going to be absorbing moisture over those 2 or 3 days before the event... longer time period........ more moisture.

So yea GOOD POINT!!!

I just noticed this Friday at work.... even though the replacement is several weeks old... I was just curious(you know me)... and with all the cost cutting, I figured it would be a good idea to check.

I'm glad I did...

So I posted it up as soon as I could because I figured somewhere this weekend someone might be in for a nasty surprise... The dry figure is what stuck in my head.

I switched over to the MOTUL after boiling problems with the old Ford stuff....zero problems since then.....so IMO, its well worth the 12 bucks every few months :rockon:

Just Shit, I have used, and talked at least 10 others into Ford HP over the last few years, brakes have not been an issue for a long time. Got 8 bottles of the new crap in the garage rite now, was going to flush today for Sebring later this month. Wish I would have seen this before I got went shopping yesterday.

Ed,
Just looked at my brake fluid bottles and they are PM-1C
Used it two weeks ago at Sebring with passenger in car. Brakes were a little soft but I did not put 2 and 2 together. They have felt the same with PM-1. I do not know if my upgrades in making the rear brakes work more saved me from boiling or not. Craig used ATE Blue 536bp and has no problems. Will upgrade but to what fluid?

I am going to stay with "my luck" for Sebring, and find some old Ford PM-1, because I will be too busy to work on the car. But, will probably go with the Ate Super Blue as Craig has done.

Hey Ed

Doug is calling some local distributors of Perforance Friction Z rated Fluid. DBP570 degrees

b_tone said:

Dry boiling point is all fine and good but the much more important rating is the wet boiling point. Any idea if that has changed?

Click to expand...

I checked both bottles ...
They both say...

The wet rating exceeds the minimum(DOT 3) requirement... 284F
but it doesn't say by how much on the bottles.. :shrug:

I don't have 4 piston calipers... and I do have a pretty heavy car, and.......... I've been moved up a few groups because supposedly.... I'm fast.

I just can't risk it... I'm going to go with something with a higher rating.

I'll post back as I get a better idea what a good value high temp brake fluid is.

I've already seen some excellent suggestions as alternatives but I have not priced them yet(I've been sick)...

The pricing is going to be either Houston area or internet(+freight)...

03'Darin said:

99COBRA2881.... I don't really think this is a matter of Ford not doing anything right. They don't market the current fluid as a high performance so 500* boiling point is more than acceptable. It's just unfortunate for us guys that used it for track stuff because that extra 50* could make a big difference.

Darin

Click to expand...

Yeah, I understand that. I've just about had it with Ford lately, canning SVT is a major part of my disgust. Not that them changing brake fluid is that big of a deal, it just means that even more of my money wont be going to the Ford Dealership from now on.

Jimmysidecarr said:

"I just can't risk it... I'm going to something with a higher rating."

Click to expand...

+1 post back with what you decide to switch to.

Anthony

Time for the newbie question: I also use the PM-1 fluid. If I decide to go Motul or other, do I have to empty the whole brake system first and then refill it? Or can I just pour the Motul in and gradually bleed the Ford stuff out (obviously I would bleed it completely)? In short, are the two fluids compatible or must they be kept separated at all costs?

I flushed a bottle of the Motul RBF600 thru the entire system, and everything was fine....

I'm trying out the ATE blue fluid in the 93R....I just put brembo calipers on it this weekend and did a full flush with the ATE blue fluid....it was pretty neat to see the fluid coming out dark yellow, then green, then all blue....I heard the Motul and ATE are made by the same company, and that they have similar ratings....

Note to a friend, reposted here.

Well after a great deal of internet study I have concluded that there is not much difference between DOT 3 and 4. Engineers specify 3 because it has a lower rate of temperature fall off over time, should not effect us as we change it frequently. See StopTech article below as an example. So I think that I will be following Craig with the Ate Super Blue. The Performance Friction fluid looks good on paper, but I cannot get a recommendation for it. I have searched cornercarvers, svtperformance, corvetteforum etc. and I cannot get anyone that uses PFZ Fluid, but you will see a lot of recommendations for Old Ford, and Ate Super Blue. There is a good article here http://www.swedishbricks.net/700900FAQ/Brake Fluid Comparison.htm that indicates that Ate Super Blue would fall into rule 3 of "Eds Economy Racing Rules" and Motul would be too expensive. 1. Pay me to use it 2. Give it to me free 3. Pay as little as possible for it.

From StopTech:

“As Carroll accurately pointed out, DOT 3 fluids are usually glycol ether based, but that is not because they are required to be. In fact, FMVSS116 makes no mention whatsoever about the chemical compounding of brake fluids – it simply dictates the fluid physical properties. However, the brake fluid industry has by consensus decreed that glycol ether fluids are the most economical way to meet the requirements, so there you are.
These glycol ether fluids are typically a by-product of the process used to make certain paints and varnishes. By definition, DOT 3 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point (measured with 0% water by volume) of 401F and a minimum wet boiling point (measured with 3.7% water by volume) of 284F. That’s really about all the specification says as far as the performance enthusiast is concerned.
DOT 4 fluids are also glycol ether based, but have a measure of borate esters thrown in for improved properties including increased dry and wet boiling points. A seldom talked about characteristic though is that because of this chemistry, the DOT 4 fluid will have a more stable and higher boiling point during the early portion of its life, but ironically once the fluid does actually begin to absorb water its boiling point will typically fall off more rapidly than a typical DOT 3. By FMVSS116 standards, DOT 4 fluids must have a minimum dry boiling point of 446F and a minimum wet boiling point of 311F.”

edz said:

...... that indicates that Ate Super Blue would fall into rule 3 of "Eds Economy Racing Rules" and Motul would be too expensive. 1. Pay me to use it 2. Give it to me free 3. Pay as little as possible for it.

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It looks like Ed and I think a lot a like!!! :beer:

I'm looking for one that does NOT involve a total fill... then flush that down the toilet... and refill again...

I'd like to just flush til it's all new and be done...

I'm thinking ATE???

03'Darin said:

99COBRA2881.... I don't really think this is a matter of Ford not doing anything right. They don't market the current fluid as a high performance so 500* boiling point is more than acceptable. It's just unfortunate for us guys that used it for track stuff because that extra 50* could make a big difference.

Darin

Click to expand...

Actually the bottle still says "High Performance".... in fact except for the suffix change in the part number... and the spec change ....

IT LOOKS IDENTICLE!!!

I've read elsewhere that it might be because of low temp ABS operational concerns.(viscosity)

Still looks like cost cutting to me...