H&R Race springs

[Dave.O]

Hello,
I have done a lot of reading/searching and cannot quite find the answer I'm looking for...
Current set up: 2003 SVT coupe with stock springs and bilstein dampers. Full MM rear bushing set up with IRS tie rod upgrades.
I will be upgrading MM front grip kit soon.
This is a HPDE, Road Coarse, Autox car with some limited street usage. Not a DD, so I can tolerate some ride harshness.

Question: Can the stock bilsteins work with H&R race springs in road coarser/autox application?

The reading reading/research so far indicates: yes/no/maybe and everywhere in between. And google tells me that stock 2003 bilsteins are and are not the same as HD's, and are / aren't the same as Cobra R bilsteins. So every where I look gives me a different answer. Someone must have tried this set up in track application...

I'm not concerned with how it will look lowered, I am concerned with how it will corner, remain flat in curves, behave under load and resist brake dive. In other words, faster track times, without going to full coil over set up. (I may upgrade to this later as my skill level improves)

Thanks in advance for the input
dave

 

[bubblehead93]

I'm your guy for this question, I auto x my 03 on h&r race springs... MM does not recommend the facotry bilsteins for use with the h&r race

http://www.maximummotorsports.com/tech_struts_shocks_matching_spring_rates.aspx

MM recommends the HD Bilstein or MM Sport damper with the h&r race spring and the MM2 Race damper with the h&r super race spring...

However, h&r does not make a super race spring for the cobra... just the non-irs mustang

All that being said, I run the MM MM2 race damper with my h&r race springs... I am very happy with how the car performs on the course, the car is on rails (MM bushings everywhere in the suspension), I reach the limts of the tire before I reach the limit of the suspension... I run NT01s for my track tire... the car has more handling ability than I have skill at this point, hopefully the two will meet someday and then, like you, I might move on to coil-overs...

hope this helps you... it is a stiff ride on the street, but it is awesome in the corners, works well with late-breaking entry...

 

[Tauntonterror]

I own this springs BUT have not installed them yet. Having said that, I talked to MM in detail about suspension when I bought them.

This is the conclusion.
First the shocks are different from a coupe to a vert, if you have a coupe then you have the better of the two. Second H&R race springs will work with those shocks perfectly fine for Daily Driver duty, not to sure on track. Personally I bought the B8 sport shocks which are a step above the shocks you have, the B6's because the race springs have a very high rate so i wanted more damper for them. If you autox your better off getting coil-overs they will be much better than the race springs and you won't have to do it twice but if you set on the race springs, MM said that they are one of the best springs for handling before going coil-overs.

 

[b_dike]

Looks like your questions are answered already, thanks to bubblehead... Just to clarify a little further, the stock bilsteins and the HD bilsteins are different. The difference being that the hd's are more aggressively valved for track duty. Which is what it sounds like your looking for.

 

[bubblehead93]

The one thing I was going to try was to get a pair of front only Steeda Full Competition springs... they would match up better with the MM2 Race damper in the front (850-1050# progressive versus 750-850# progressive for the h&r race)... once I try them out, I'll post up my observations between running the two with the same dampers... again the Steeda spring is liekly a better match for the dampers I have...

 

[Dave.O]

thanks everyone for their feed back. My car is a coupe btw with stock 600/600 # springs and bilstiens

So the take aways are:
1. Stock 03-04 Cobra Bilsteins are not the same as bilstein HDs (this is contrary to what Steeda has on their site)
2. H&R race springs have too high of a rate for stock 03-04 bilsteins and likely would not perform well in hard / track driving.

Are their any springs that offer an improvement in handling with out needing to replace the shocks/struts? (possibly a progressive in the 700# range)

thanks

 

[bubblehead93]

With respect to the stock cobra bilsteins versus the HD... you can do alot of searching and not come up with a straight answer while finding alot of knowledgable folks who are 100% convinced on one side or the other... I suspect that the two are fairly close in valving... depending how many miles you have on the factory struts, you may see a big difference between the two mostly due to the originals being a bit worn out...

My setup is a bit overdamped with the h&r race in the front... I think you could get away with it on the street, I think if you are going to track it you will end up wanting a bit more damping than the factory bilsteins will give you...

My recommendation, get the h&r springs, see how it works for you on the track, if it seems to be underdamped then consider upgrading the struts...

 

[FromGTtoSVT]

I have been running H&R Race springs in my Vert with the stock bilstiens since 2008.....no issues, no problems and the car handles great. Don't listen to the sales crap from MM, you don't need to change out anything when upgrading springs.

 

[bubblehead93]

^^^do you auto cross? have you found the car to be neutral or under-damped?

 

[bubblehead93]

for the OP, while the factory coupe bilsteins are close to the HDs, the factory covertible bilsteins are not... keep that in mind...

I'm about to pull the trigger here on some Steeda full competition front springs... found out they come in two P/Ns... one is 223-121000 which the Steeda tech rep said was a 1000# linear spring and the other is 121-4540-001 which is a 850-1050# progressive spring... interested in the progressive ones, see how they turn out... either way, it is $200 for a pair...

 

[jbhguitar]

bubblehead93, how did the MM2s compare to your stock dampers? I'm hoping you drove with the H&R Race on stock coupe dampers first lol. I'm going to upgrade my stock vert dampers one day as I'm on H&R Race.

 

[bubblehead93]

went in all at once, race springs and mm2s, again I don't think I have enough front spring for the mm2s, but I like how they feel... in general I have found the overdamping has little effect on auto-x because the track is flat, no bumps, or unevenness which would cause the overdamping to upset the suspension...

the car handles wonderfully, when I take other auto-x competitors on a ride around (focus st, skyline, and 240sx crowd), the are amazed at how the car rides and handles... I can take the car right up to the limit of front tire grip...

 

[Dave.O]

Thanks to every one for their input.
Based upon the comments here and what I have been reading, I think I will go forward with stock coupe struts and upgrade the rear shocks to 2000R spec.
This will be along with replacing all the front rubber bushings as well with parts from MM.

 

[FromGTtoSVT]

^^^do you auto cross? have you found the car to be neutral or under-damped?

I do not auto cross..mine is street driven only. The Vert bilsteins are just valved a little bit softer, they are not drastically different than the coupe ones.

 

[maverick0817]

I have a coupe with H&R race springs. Stock shocks/struts, car has 60,000 miles. I have auto crossed it a couple times and the car definitely feels under damped to me. I ordering a set of sport valved bilsteins.