Boston lag differences

[lilmarauder]

You'll feel the turbo car on 10-14psi to be as quick as the 23psi whipple setup IMO.

My 5-10psi turbo setups(550-650whp) all felt much much much faster than my 15psi/150 shot (620whp) eaton setup. If I had to guess, I'd say my eaton spray would have been at least 5-8mph slower trap speed in a quarter mile.

Turbos feel like they push you into another vortex, na and sc feel like they pull you along very briskly.

To me, a 550whp turbo 03 cobra feels faster than a 700whp pd blower cobra. It's likely not faster between 6000-6500rpm, but anything from 2500-6000, I've felt a low boost turbo cobra covers a higher boost pd car pretty easy.

Build your car up right, degree'd 98 cams, mild port the intake 98 intake, proper converter, 3.55 rear, etc, and drive it on the wastegate spring for an hour or two. I guarantee you 5-10psi will feel much quicker than you expect it will.

Back to your original question, yes a cg fab ff header will be more efficient, no a hellion setup isn't a huge hang up.

You could likely run 1-2psi less and make the same power on cg fab hotside vs a hellion hotside up to about 10psi, maybe need 2-3psi more up to 20psi, and maybe 3-4psi more at 25psi. Basically the cgfab setup is about 15%, maybe 20% more efficient assuming all of the exhaust/hotside work is down exceptionally well. The problem is if the exhaust/hotside builder isn't well versed, you could easily lose 15-20% efficiency. If they cook an idiotic 90* bend too sharply, or make the left and right banks decidedly uneven, the ff headers would all be for not.

The hellion kit is like a go to stalwart quarterback. Assuming your team is great, you'll be winning often. The cg fab headers are like a pinpoint quarterback, excellent by themselves, but give em a shotty team, and it won't matter that they are better.

My main reason for wanting to go with a hellion setup is the smaller things that I don't have the means to have done.

The biggest hang up is having an exhaust welded up/fabricated. There are no shops in the Detroit area that I know of that will fab up a custom 4" downpipe/exhaust for the cg setup.

I'm going full build with the transmission. I'm calling up Freddy brown, and they are going to set me up with a convertor also.

I'm happy with 700-800 horsepower. I don't want to have to build the motor up if I don't have to. I know it won't last forever though. I know everyone says that "that's enough power for me" but I had trouble hooking 700hp 650tq on the street. What's the point. From what I understand I can get that pretty easy with the hellion setup.

Even though my tuner tried pretty hard to sway me away from going with a turbo, I know his tuning is top notch and I 100% trust the tuning. I couldn't imagine not having at least a wideband. I ran one as soon as I was pulled on the eaton.

The engine is apart just to have the timing cover and cam covers powdercoated. Plus I have to get a fitting welded into the oil pan. I'm not sure how easy it is to put cams and better springs in it at this point. I've never done it.

 

[bubblehead93]

http://www.modularfords.com/threads/235881-TT-engine-build-suggestions

good rod discussion here from another forum... that's ok right? lol

r/
Andy

 

[lilmarauder]

Am I going at this the wrong way?

 

[stradt03]

My main reason for wanting to go with a hellion setup is the smaller things that I don't have the means to have done.

The biggest hang up is having an exhaust welded up/fabricated. There are no shops in the Detroit area that I know of that will fab up a custom 4" downpipe/exhaust for the cg setup.

I'm going full build with the transmission. I'm calling up Freddy brown, and they are going to set me up with a convertor also.

I'm happy with 700-800 horsepower. I don't want to have to build the motor up if I don't have to. I know it won't last forever though. I know everyone says that "that's enough power for me" but I had trouble hooking 700hp 650tq on the street. What's the point. From what I understand I can get that pretty easy with the hellion setup.

Even though my tuner tried pretty hard to sway me away from going with a turbo, I know his tuning is top notch and I 100% trust the tuning. I couldn't imagine not having at least a wideband. I ran one as soon as I was pulled on the eaton.

The engine is apart just to have the timing cover and cam covers powdercoated. Plus I have to get a fitting welded into the oil pan. I'm not sure how easy it is to put cams and better springs in it at this point. I've never done it.

Boston Lag!!! I came in thinking we had a thread about Sam Adams Boston Lager, I love that stuff.

Is Lidio your tuner?

 

[lilmarauder]

Boston Lag!!! I came in thinking we had a thread about Sam Adams Boston Lager, I love that stuff.

Is Lidio your tuner?

I had to laugh and shake my head when I saw what I did. Great beer.

Yea, lidio is my tuner. Great guy

 

[stradt03]

I had to laugh and shake my head when I saw what I did. Great beer.

Yea, lidio is my tuner. Great guy

I agree, Lidio is a good guy- tunes cars so that they last. My only gripe is that he is very set in his ways and doesn't ever seem interested in branching out to explore other options besides Vortech and Whipple.

 

[lilmarauder]

I agree, Lidio is a good guy- tunes cars so that they last. My only gripe is that he is very set in his ways and doesn't ever seem interested in branching out to explore other options besides Vortech and Whipple.

Yeah I was disappointed when he wasn't into what I have planed, but I know he will tune it right.

 

[brian97cobra]

I agree, Lidio is a good guy- tunes cars so that they last. My only gripe is that he is very set in his ways and doesn't ever seem interested in branching out to explore other options besides Vortech and Whipple.

he is a very good tuner.

but since he does not like turbo cars would you not rather take the car to a guy that deals in turbo stuff more?

just a thought....

 

[lilmarauder]

he is a very good tuner.

but since he does not like turbo cars would you not rather take the car to a guy that deals in turbo stuff more?

just a thought....

I've never gone through anyone else, didn't give it a lot of thought.

Who is the turbo guy?

 

[stradt03]

he is a very good tuner.

but since he does not like turbo cars would you not rather take the car to a guy that deals in turbo stuff more?

just a thought....

I'm not using Lidio, He tuned my car back when it had a Vortech and I lived in Michigan. I didn't have any issues with his tune of that Vortech car, but the fact that he doesn't really see many turbo cars resulted in me removing him from consideration. Not to mention is is over 12 hours from my current location.

I'll be using Fastlane Motorsports down here in NC. They pump out quite a few turbo cars and really seem to know what they are doing.

 

[static74]

I've never gone through anyone else, didn't give it a lot of thought.

Who is the turbo guy?

CRT Performance in Norwalk did my turbo car, they're also good with e85. I'd go there before anywhere else.

 

[lilmarauder]

CRT Performance in Norwalk did my turbo car, they're also good with e85. I'd go there before anywhere else.

I'll check them out

 

[Juiced46]

The CG Fab kit is marginally better due to the forward facing headers. More of a direct path to the turbo instead of the extra length of piping that the Hellion uses on the hot side.

With that being said. The biggest deciding factor in how much lag you will have is going to be your CONVERTER. If the converter is setup wrong, its going to spool very very slow. Hopefully you are using a good converter company. Not all places get it right on the first shot and it may have to come out to get tweaked. A GOOD converter shop should be able to get it close on the first shot.

If you converter is setup correctly and properly setup with your turbo combo, the power is going to come on like a rocket.

Another thing that is going to affect lag/spooling is cam phasing and some other specifics with the engine combo. Cam phasing plays a big role in power delivery and spoolup....

My car with a Th400, Hellion 76mm on 15-17#s would put bus lengths on my buddies car that I built which was a 2.3 Whipple @ 25psi High compression 4V making 740rwhp. It wasn't even a race.

 

[lilmarauder]

The CG Fab kit is marginally better due to the forward facing headers. More of a direct path to the turbo instead of the extra length of piping that the Hellion uses on the hot side.

With that being said. The biggest deciding factor in how much lag you will have is going to be your CONVERTER. If the converter is setup wrong, its going to spool very very slow. Hopefully you are using a good converter company. Not all places get it right on the first shot and it may have to come out to get tweaked. A GOOD converter shop should be able to get it close on the first shot.

If you converter is setup correctly and properly setup with your turbo combo, the power is going to come on like a rocket.

Another thing that is going to affect lag/spooling is cam phasing and some other specifics with the engine combo. Cam phasing plays a big role in power delivery and spoolup....

My car with a Th400, Hellion 76mm on 15-17#s would put bus lengths on my buddies car that I built which was a 2.3 Whipple @ 25psi High compression 4V making 740rwhp. It wasn't even a race.

I am for sure going with the hellion kit. I'm going to "fix it" and do a blow through swap. It just makes more sense for me.

I know Freddy brown is one of the best. They said they use a PI convertor, and will set me up based on my car. Not sure if that's the best way to go or not.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to put better springs in the heads. I've been reading about valve float around 18-20psi and am trying to research if that is worth doing.

 

[brian97cobra]

I am for sure going with the hellion kit. I'm going to "fix it" and do a blow through swap. It just makes more sense for me.

I know Freddy brown is one of the best. They said they use a PI convertor, and will set me up based on my car. Not sure if that's the best way to go or not.

Right now I'm trying to figure out how to put better springs in the heads. I've been reading about valve float around 18-20psi and am trying to research if that is worth doing.

def go blow thru because the draw thru setup sucks that was my first and only change I made with my kit

 

[lilmarauder]

def go blow thru because the draw thru setup sucks that was my first and only change I made with my kit

Do you feel like it would be worth will to upgrade the valve springs/seals while it's apart?

 

[brian97cobra]

Do you feel like it would be worth will to upgrade the valve springs/seals while it's apart?

it will be expensive but less expensive now then when the motor is in the car.

having a well controlled valve train is a must. especially if you plan to upgrade and go faster in the future. do it once and do it right. that's just my train of thought. remember with a turbo besides having the supporting hardware and a tune more power is just the click of a button or turn of the knob away.

its easy to want more power once your used to the level you at and want to go faster. I went from bone stock 03 cobra, to ported eaton, then port eaton and nos, then whipple and nos... all those changes in 18 months. then went to a built motor and turbo. my next upgrades will probably be an auto and a roll cage. its always something bro. but its easier to upgrade and make more power than to have to buy the same parts over and over again and having to pull the motor and such.

 

[brian97cobra]

Do you feel like it would be worth will to upgrade the valve springs/seals while it's apart?

I forgot to give you a straight answer of YES

id do it if it was my car

 

[brian97cobra]

here is the spring combo I went with and also did you do the timing tensioner upgrades?

 

[lilmarauder]

here is the spring combo I went with and also did you do the timing tensioner upgrades?

I have done nothing yet. I didn't plan on any motor upgrades, but I will now. I left the engine in the car, I just planned on having covers powdercoated.

Guess I should actually pull the engine out? I'm not trying to go wild, just don't want to have issues. I might as well though it would be easy get out of the car now how it is.

If you felt like it, I could use a rundown. I'm a great wrench, just haven't done this before.