GT350 vs GT350R Engine Differences?

[GT Premi]

Does anybody know of any engine differences between the standard GT350 and the GT350R? I happened upon a video from some guy who believes there are some differences between the two. His only evidence (that I'm aware of) is an assembly line sticker on the valve covers. He has a standard GT350 and 2 GT350Rs. He pointed out the sticker on his R's valve cover that reads "5.2L GT350R". I immediately went and checked mine, and sure enough, there's a sticker on it that reads the same thing. He says the sticker on his standard GT350 just says "GT350".

Can somebody with a standard GT350 check theirs? It's under the coil cover(s). On the driver side, it's over the last cylinder. The coil cover comes off and goes back on with minimal effort. No tools required. You can pry it up with your fingers.

 

[Osiris]

Does anybody know of any engine differences between the standard GT350 and the GT350R? I happened upon a video from some guy who believes there are some differences between the two. His only evidence (that I'm aware of) is an assembly line sticker on the valve covers. He has a standard GT350 and 2 GT350Rs. He pointed out the sticker on his R's valve cover that reads "5.2L GT350R". I immediately went and checked mine, and sure enough, there's a sticker on it that reads the same thing. He says the sticker on his standard GT350 just says "GT350".

Can somebody with a standard GT350 check theirs? It's under the coil cover(s). On the driver side, it's over the last cylinder. The coil cover comes off and goes back on with minimal effort. No tools required. You can pry it up with your fingers.

I'll check for you later. There are no differences that have ever been stated by Ford.

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[DeathvalleySC]

My gt350 just says gt350. I remember the same video. It’s the guy that blew an R motor and found out the motors are numbered to match the VIN. You can actually see the number looking underneath at the motor directly behind the driver front wheel towards the motor. In that same video I can’t remember what he said but he did say what he thought the difference was between the two motors.


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[Drewsky65]

Pretty sure it’s just the vin to match the body. But there are from what I understand no actuall differences in the motors.

 

[Tob]

The engine assemblies are 100% identical.

 

[DeathvalleySC]

In the video the guy says that the GT350R has a different long block. I’m not sure how true this is. That’s just what he states that he found out.


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[Osiris]

In the video the guy says that the GT350R has a different long block. I’m not sure how true this is. That’s just what he states that he found out.


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I wonder what his foil hat looks like.

Hahaha

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[SID297]

In the video the guy says that the GT350R has a different long block. I’m not sure how true this is. That’s just what he states that he found out.


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And he would be incorrect.

 

[98 svt]

I just saw part 2 of his video. He states the doofilator valve is 62 mm on the 350R, slighty larger than the 350.

 

[Papaw]

Maybe it's just the conversion from inches to mm?

 

[jvandy50]

Can’t understand why y’all don’t believe him, i’m going back now to listen to that savant shifting exhibition.

 

[GT Premi]

Pretty sure it’s just the vin to match the body. But there are from what I understand no actuall differences in the motors.

I thought it was to have a "numbers matching" engine coming off the assembly line, too, but what difference would it make, as long as the VIN stamped on the block (and heads) matches the body? What's the need for the stickers?

The only thing I've read that's even remotely close to the engines being different was someone said the R supposedly makes more power, but Ford didn't want to certify the engine twice, so they don't advertise it as being any different. :shrug: I'm not buying the more power argument, considering both cars have identical trap speeds in the quarter. Edmunds dyno'd both cars, and found that the R was making slightly more power to the wheels, but basically wrote it off as either being "within the noise" of the dyno or owing to the carbon fiber wheels.

 

[ANGREY]

Keep in mind that an R will dyno higher simply because of the rotational inertia of the wheels/tires. There's a very good video by Brenspeed of a car with heavier wheels (same car) losing 5% of it's power on the dyno just from a wheel swap. Given that the R's wheels aren't just significantly lighter, but slightly shorter, it will result in the same engine putting down slightly higher power and torque numbers through the drive train to the rollers.

 

[Drewsky65]

Keep in mind that an R will dyno higher simply because of the rotational inertia of the wheels/tires. There's a very good video by Brenspeed of a car with heavier wheels (same car) losing 5% of it's power on the dyno just from a wheel swap. Given that the R's wheels aren't just significantly lighter, but slightly shorter, it will result in the same engine putting down slightly higher power and torque numbers through the drive train to the rollers.

this is exactly it.

 

[Tob]

The only thing I've read that's even remotely close to the engines being different was someone said the R supposedly makes more power, but Ford didn't want to certify the engine twice, so they don't advertise it as being any different. :shrug: I'm not buying the more power argument, considering both cars have identical trap speeds in the quarter.

Dave Pericak was quoted as saying that the R has a slightly higher output due to the reduced restriction in the exhaust system (resonator vs no resonator). He stated that the difference was minute enough that Ford did not need to recertify.

 

[ANGREY]

Dave Pericak was quoted as saying that the R has a slightly higher output due to the reduced restriction in the exhaust system (resonator vs no resonator). He stated that the difference was minute enough that Ford did not need to recertify.

So does Ford engine dyno with the exhaust or do they wheel dyno?

If they engine dyno, it seems weird they'd do it with the whole exhaust system as well. If they wheel dyno, as I stated earlier, the R is going to have higher hp and torque numbers because the drivetrain is different. Resonators would probably be a very miniscule effect, but wheels that are 17 lbs lighter are going to give higher HP outputs on the rollers and slightly shorter (artificial gearing) are going to result in a bump in torque as well.

 

[AustinSN]

I'd imagine with the engine cert, they are dynoing the engine out of the car with the full exhaust attached.

How else would you prove the HP number if you had to feed it through the drive train/ran the shorties open?

 

[ANGREY]

I'd imagine with the engine cert, they are dynoing the engine out of the car with the full exhaust attached.

How else would you prove the HP number if you had to feed it through the drive train/ran the shorties open?

I'm asking.

Every engine dyno test I've ever seen features some sort of non-full length exhaust, just to keep the test honest and provide similar scavenging to a full length system. When's the last time you saw an engine dyno with headers, x pipe (and cats), resonators, all the way back to functioning active exhaust?

Which is why I'm asking cause that's the only way they'd distinguish between any miniscule restriction that resonators would put on the 350 vs. the R. If they engine dyno'd them with full, OEM exhaust systems attached.

OR,

If they roller dyno'd which would totally obfuscate the resonators with the differences in wheels/tires.

 

[AustinSN]

I'm asking.

Every engine dyno test I've ever seen features some sort of non-full length exhaust, just to keep the test honest and provide similar scavenging to a full length system. When's the last time you saw an engine dyno with headers, x pipe (and cats), resonators, all the way back to functioning active exhaust?

Which is why I'm asking cause that's the only way they'd distinguish between any miniscule restriction that resonators would put on the 350 vs. the R. If they engine dyno'd them with full, OEM exhaust systems attached.

OR,

If they roller dyno'd which would totally obfuscate the resonators with the differences in wheels/tires.

I'm fairly certain they need to certify an engine within 1% of what it is rated at, so I imagine they would go out of their way to prove the rest of the exhaust isn't helping/hindering the test.

If they do, for whatever reason, run a roller set up they would have to take into account the wheel weight differences and I imagine the tire differences as well.

I can't find any videos on this sort of thing, I'm sure @Tob would know though.

 

[ANGREY]

I'm fairly certain they need to certify an engine within 1% of what it is rated at, so I imagine they would go out of their way to prove the rest of the exhaust isn't helping/hindering the test.

If they do, for whatever reason, run a roller set up they would have to take into account the wheel weight differences and I imagine the tire differences as well.

I can't find any videos on this sort of thing, I'm sure @Tob would know though.

You can do any certification to any standard tolerance as long as the conditions are the same/similar. So if you engine dyno with shorties or an artificial dual setup, as long as you test other engines with the same exhaust setup, that provides a baseline and a batch production comparison.

Moreoever, why would you dyno the 350 engines on a full exhaust without resonators, and then separately dyno the power plants that go in the R separately with a different exhaust (sans resonators)? If the two plants are supposedly the same, why the two tests? And if they didn't do it that way, how were they supposed to see a difference between them?

I'm just asking questions to a theory that was thrown out about variances with the resonators being the culprit. The only way for that to be true is if A) Ford did the engine dyno's with full OEM to tip exhaust setups and B) Ford did separate tests for the motors that go in the R's with R style exhaust and motors that go in the regular 350 with 350 style exhaust.

It seems a bit curious they would do that?

But it's part of the original mythology that's ongoing in this thread about whether the engines are different. Outside of a flippin' sticker/plackard/label, there's no difference between the two power plants that anyone has documented. Just conspiracy theories and speculation.