ADM’s COMING DOWN ???
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It is indeed. Hopefully the C8 provides the firm slap across the face that Ford needs. Why flaunt what you aren't selling? Who thought the HP puzzle was a good idea? How much longer does Ford shy away from admitting how fat this thing is? Where's the build and price or more detailed specs?
My blood runs blue but whoever is steering the ship has it pointed the wrong way.
My blood runs blue but whoever is steering the ship has it pointed the wrong way.
Tob,
I couldn't agree with you more. Ford has screwed the pouch with their lame marketing. The only cars they talk about and display are the CFTP cars. It's no wonder a lot of people want one, it is the only one they see, the base models can not be found anywhere and then they come up with a stupid golden ticket. Ford still hasn't shown cars in all the colors available. I have been hunting for pictures of the stock non-CF instrument panel and have never found a picture of one, same for the standard front seats and a legitimate picture of a white car.
Chevy reveals the C8 on July 18 and interested buyers can go on their website and see and build a car, the only thing they can't do is price it out, I expect that option to be available sometime next week. They have already started taking order and the dealer have there allocations and it hasn't even been 2 weeks since the reveal. All the specs are readily available on their website and this is for a car that won't be built until next year.
Ford reveals their car in Jan, doesn't release HP and torque number until after they have their customers solve a stupid puzzle. They release order guides and a price list in June and open the order bank on July1 and start scheduling cars in late July for production in late Sept and no one even know how much the car weighs. Plus still no Build and Price configurator.
The some total of all our knowledge at this time is, we know how much it costs, the horsepower and torque (assuming that it has been SAE certified), what kind of transmission it has (no internal gear ratios), 3.73 rear gears, we have a color chart (which is useless without pictures and a configurator), limited pictures of the interior, zero pictures of the underside of the car and no trunk pictures. No explanation for the cost difference between the GT350 and GT500 CF instrument panel $500 vs $1000, OTT stripes $495 vs $1000 and the tech package $2000 vs $3000.
I could go on, but it is late and this isn't making me feel any better about the situation.
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I think Ford hit a homerun in 2015 with GT350 and FPC, bringing a high end world class engine to Mustang caught the world by complete surprise, and they thought the demand, excitement, and ADM could be manipulated in the same way with GT500. I do think GT500 is a commendable car, however it has direct competition with the same recipe in ZL1 1LE, HP in Hell Cat, and now has to deal with the revolutionary C8, which is turning the entire industry upside down.
It's not just Ford that got hamstrung by C8, it is the entire high end sports car market. Compared to a 80k C8 Z51, do you really want a GT3 RS for 170k, a R8 for 140k, a NSX for 160k, and the list goes on with McLaren, Ferrari, i8... Until you triple the price, C8 will basically have the best 0-60 and shortest braking distance of the bunch.
Regardless of the C8, Ford's marketing sucks, we have been hanging on the few easter eggs they released for 2+ years. I'd argue until specs are published the car is not 'officially' released, and while I love the appearance and execution and the CF rims, the recipe is yesterday's technology tomorrow and just took too long to get to market. It certainly will be tunable to 1kHP, but we have to be concerned about putting that power thru the DCT.
I believe the only way Ford could have actually competed this cycle would have been to launch a hybrid mustang with electric assist on the front hubs, (ideally paired with FPC,) but even that would not negate the physics behind the mid-engine advantage, and if Z06 or ZR1 brings a hybrid solution, then C8 will still retain mid-engine advantages.
C8 tech is no big deal, but bringing it under 100k is, and while I would not want a base model, advertising it under 60k starting price is mind boggling. Like the C7, it certainly might be tail happy, but with modern electronic handling assist recipes available GM won't have the same learning curve Porsche endured thru the 70's. It's a good one.
The big C8 disappointment to me is they necessarily will be ubiquitous in 1-2 years. I love the uniqueness of my Shelby's and it's why I would buy a GT500, or a 911, or any of the more exclusive machines. For me, the time to own a C8 is soon, before they get the bugs out, the first year or two and before I'm looking at myself at every intersection.
It's not just Ford that got hamstrung by C8, it is the entire high end sports car market. Compared to a 80k C8 Z51, do you really want a GT3 RS for 170k, a R8 for 140k, a NSX for 160k, and the list goes on with McLaren, Ferrari, i8... Until you triple the price, C8 will basically have the best 0-60 and shortest braking distance of the bunch.
Regardless of the C8, Ford's marketing sucks, we have been hanging on the few easter eggs they released for 2+ years. I'd argue until specs are published the car is not 'officially' released, and while I love the appearance and execution and the CF rims, the recipe is yesterday's technology tomorrow and just took too long to get to market. It certainly will be tunable to 1kHP, but we have to be concerned about putting that power thru the DCT.
I believe the only way Ford could have actually competed this cycle would have been to launch a hybrid mustang with electric assist on the front hubs, (ideally paired with FPC,) but even that would not negate the physics behind the mid-engine advantage, and if Z06 or ZR1 brings a hybrid solution, then C8 will still retain mid-engine advantages.
C8 tech is no big deal, but bringing it under 100k is, and while I would not want a base model, advertising it under 60k starting price is mind boggling. Like the C7, it certainly might be tail happy, but with modern electronic handling assist recipes available GM won't have the same learning curve Porsche endured thru the 70's. It's a good one.
The big C8 disappointment to me is they necessarily will be ubiquitous in 1-2 years. I love the uniqueness of my Shelby's and it's why I would buy a GT500, or a 911, or any of the more exclusive machines. For me, the time to own a C8 is soon, before they get the bugs out, the first year or two and before I'm looking at myself at every intersection.
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I would think you would still want heat extractor vents up front since there are still radiators up front!
Maybe the bulge is for more luggage space lol.
Ken
We should rename the 2020 GT500 section to the 2020 GT500 & C8 Vette section with how much C8 content I'm reading lately lmao.
I hate to contribute to it here, but my defense is it's happening on every forum these days... hard to be a car nut and not evaluate the state of it all.
Thats only going to be true in a straight line. Fact is, people are cross shopping the platforms and some people care about more than roll racing. A C8Z51 and a handling pack GT500 will likely be very close on all other metrics. Im looking forward to the Randy pobst tests likely next summer.
Edit: what tire is on the handling pack car? I know the base gets the 4s and the track pack gets the cup 2.
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I don't believe that for a second.
1st is performance,
Base vs 500
0-60 means nothing, ford
1/4 mile ford
Roadcourse ford
Price c8
Seats 4 ford
Exclusivity ford
Z51 vs 500
0-60, means nothing z51
1/4 mile ford
Roadcourse ford
Price c8
Seats 4 ford
Exclusivity ford
Within 3 months you will be tired of seeing low end stock c8s driving around ( untunable) Nearly every model mustang will drag its ass
Much like all the msrp deals amd im not buying because manual posters, i feel most "cancelled " gt500 orders were never real to begin with.
Case in point, im very in tune with the performance car world on the east coast. I know of 10 gt500 buyers, myself inlcuded. 1 was 100% to flip. 7 are shop owners, 1 is private/part time/development buyer.
3 of those are smaller shops and more like.private than business buyers
Of those 10 total, only 1 has canceled his order to get a c8.
Conversely, i know of, as of this afternoon 30+ c8s being ordered. Roughly 10 are shop cars, the rest private. Thats a metric sh*t ton for a week, and only going to get worse.
Great lookong car, not going to be competitive for a long time.
1st is performance,
Base vs 500
0-60 means nothing, ford
1/4 mile ford
Roadcourse ford
Price c8
Seats 4 ford
Exclusivity ford
Z51 vs 500
0-60, means nothing z51
1/4 mile ford
Roadcourse ford
Price c8
Seats 4 ford
Exclusivity ford
Within 3 months you will be tired of seeing low end stock c8s driving around ( untunable) Nearly every model mustang will drag its ass
Much like all the msrp deals amd im not buying because manual posters, i feel most "cancelled " gt500 orders were never real to begin with.
Case in point, im very in tune with the performance car world on the east coast. I know of 10 gt500 buyers, myself inlcuded. 1 was 100% to flip. 7 are shop owners, 1 is private/part time/development buyer.
3 of those are smaller shops and more like.private than business buyers
Of those 10 total, only 1 has canceled his order to get a c8.
Conversely, i know of, as of this afternoon 30+ c8s being ordered. Roughly 10 are shop cars, the rest private. Thats a metric sh*t ton for a week, and only going to get worse.
Great lookong car, not going to be competitive for a long time.
No C8's are being ordered, only a slot can only be reserved at this time. Ordering won't start until sometime in August after the prices are available.
Gotta be specific which 500, because a base 500 will not be faster than a Z51 on a road course. Im not sure what tire comes on the handling pack so I retract that comment until I know.
Exclusivity means less than 0-60. Literally nobody gives a shit what you drive, but you sure hang on to the "its gonna get boring" thing. Whats new, its a corvette, yes there will be endless amounts of them on the street, boggles my mind how someone would care.
odd you can say whats faster without a specific # from either so i find that funny. Even more funny you find 0-60 more important than anything.
so please, give me 3 cars, 3 2017+ cars that you feel are rival to the C8, no price exclusion
and then 3 best 2017+ cars from 55-65k that can compete with the c8
i'll wait
** and yes, eclusivity plays a larger part in fun toy purchase than a 0-60
so please, give me 3 cars, 3 2017+ cars that you feel are rival to the C8, no price exclusion
and then 3 best 2017+ cars from 55-65k that can compete with the c8
i'll wait
** and yes, eclusivity plays a larger part in fun toy purchase than a 0-60
Yeah, knowing the z51 has under 500hp I dont care... at 3500lbs it shouldn't beat 760hp 4k lbs car on any track that let's the Ford get into 3rd/4th gear
So you can call it fact that the 500 will win in all categories but price? Talk about hipocracy, I've never once mentioned 0-60 being important.
If you were well tuned on how cars work on a road course you'd understand that a MPS4S+ no aero + 4100lbs + 760Hp is a recipe for nothing great. Once the shelby has the Gt4 aero and the cup2 it will be a whole nother ballgame. I wish people would quit seeing a high HP number and automatically thinking oh yea, that'll do it.
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Faster/longer straight= much longer braking zone, that difference in hp becomes very little. Given that they are on the same tire but the Corvette is on an obviously superior mid engine chassis and at least 500lbs less itll entry and exit speeds will be much faster than the shelby. And this is where hp is virtually meaningless.
your making these assumptions. how do you know? can you show me other 495chp cars that are beating even the gt350? then list their hp weight and price please. I want to dive into why your drawing these conclusions
They aren't assumptions, I've got years of first hand experience in road course, more so than most can ever dream of being a member at a private track 15min from home with IndyCar and GTD racers for instructors.
My math is simple
Base 500: 4100lbs, 4s, no aero... that's not going to be even slightly ground breaking on a track no matter how much hp they throw at it. HP does in FACT become a detriment once the chassis' ideal power is exceeded. It will likely be equal to or lose to a 350R on most road course, depending on testing. I'll bet we don't see the base car even get instrument tested as Ford likely wont allow it. The CF track pack will be impressive for sure, but its relying on the super sticky 100tw cup2 and GT4 aero..
And then we have a new mid engine vette that isn't actually new, it's been in development for about 8 years or so, much lighter and better balanced. The C7 grand sport was a full second faster than the 350R with 67hp less and a much worse tire. The C8 Z51 has a lot of equal parts to the C7 GS in a chassis that will be much stiffer.
Corvette is always going to be faster than mustang in general, that's nothing new. And now Corvette is cheaper than the shelby so people like me are going nuts over it. I was every bit of the Ford homer that you are, but I'm going to adapt with this C8. Not totally trying to take away from the new 500, I still like the car it's just that Corvette is now winning
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