Exhibition ticket for 13 mph

[RDJ]

Get an attorney and let them tell you what to do. If you are looking at a license suspension it is definitely worth the money for the Attorney.

Frankly I think everyone telling him to get an attorney is giving bad advice. Let's throw out everything that has been said about the application of the law and all the arguing over what the cop should or shouldn't have done. Let's JUST take the first sentence of the OP:

I was at a light ready to run against a z28 in my 03 cobra, I let the z28 leave first for a split second, planted the cobra and started to take off

So the OP, admits guilt (no such thing as innocent until proven guilty here)

So the OP participates in illegal street racing

The OP losing his license to drive for 6 months is a good thing as it takes a street racer off the streets even if it is only for 6 months.

If the OP DOES go to court we can only hope he loses his license of longer than 6 months. The people who live in his town will be safer for it.

I really don't see where the argument is.

 

[FordSVTFan]

So the officer observed the totality of the situation, and based on experience and training, made the judgement call that there was indeed intent to race, but did not want to wait until the race had taken place as this might have endangered the participants and the public. Is that the correct interpretation of the officer's position?

I dont know what the officer's position is. I know what the OP said and compared it to the statute just like a prosecutor would. The facts as noted by the OP indicate the race began.

Would a good defense attorney argue that, even though the other car did in fact take off, his client did not (was only doing 13 mph) and so really did not intend to engage in an exhibition of speed? And would you think that would be a successful defense?

I think it comes down to credibility of the witnesses and their stories. I have seen good defense attorneys make strong evidence appear weak, but then again those crim. def. guys were in felony trials.

 

[horsfias]

As stated,the speed or lack there of doesnt hold much in this case.You showed the intent to race,so there it is.Being you didnt get your car towed or arrested..Id say you came out smelling like a rose

Revving your car at another at a stop light could be considered intent? I have DOT drag radials on my car, does that also show intent? Maybe apples to oranges but I don't agree with that school of thought.

 

[RDJ]

Revving your car at another at a stop light could be considered intent? I have DOT drag radials on my car, does that also show intent? Maybe apples to oranges but I don't agree with that school of thought.

as you said ..apples and oranges, And I seriously doubt "that school of thought" gives a shit whether or not you agree with it. Revving your engine at a light in most states falls under "exhibition of speed" and is a violation, your not liking it is irrelevant.

 

[horsfias]

as you said ..apples and oranges, And I seriously doubt "that school of thought" gives a shit whether or not you agree with it. Revving your engine at a light in most states falls under "exhibition of speed" and is a violation, your not liking it is irrelevant.

I'm aware it doesn't agree with me as I wouldn't do 3/4 of what I do behind the wheel if it did. Thanks for the typical captain tough guy response that's so common in this area of the forums :beer:

 

[tt335ci03cobra]

Well, that RDJ guy gets my vote for clown of this thread. The day RDJ's claim gains any validation from me regarding how my drivers license should be handled, based on me engaging in a street race, will be the day RDJ voluntarily stop driving for 6 month's because he also engages in exhibitionist driving.

 

[RDJ]

Well, that RDJ guy gets my vote for clown of this thread. The day RDJ's claim gains any validation from me regarding how my drivers license should be handled, based on me engaging in a street race, will be the day RDJ voluntarily stop driving for 6 month's because he also engages in exhibitionist driving.

I neither asked for, nor want your "validation". And since this is not smackdown I will refrain from responding to your calling me a "clown"

 

[pyrocrazy]

try arguing that you were just messing with the camaro. say you understand that it was immature and dangerous but it was all in good fun. possibly having a good driving record and being friendly with the cops (sounds like the cop was nice) might help too. regardless, that sucks getting pulled over by a toyota avalon. i once saw an old ford contour cop pull over a corvette for blowing through a red light and couldn't stop laughing.

 

[swoosh_stang]

Frankly I think everyone telling him to get an attorney is giving bad advice. Let's throw out everything that has been said about the application of the law and all the arguing over what the cop should or shouldn't have done. Let's JUST take the first sentence of the OP:

I was at a light ready to run against a z28 in my 03 cobra, I let the z28 leave first for a split second, planted the cobra and started to take off

So the OP, admits guilt (no such thing as innocent until proven guilty here)

So the OP participates in illegal street racing

The OP losing his license to drive for 6 months is a good thing as it takes a street racer off the streets even if it is only for 6 months.

If the OP DOES go to court we can only hope he loses his license of longer than 6 months. The people who live in his town will be safer for it.

I really don't see where the argument is.

My advice was intended to be in the best interest of the OP, not society in general.

 

[horsfias]

OP,

My best advice is to get a lawyer. I was caught about 5 years ago. Did not get arrested/car towed (wasn't common practice then in my area though). My citation was different from yours as I received a careless and imprudent driving by drag racing ticket. Anyway, went to court and wound up with a fine, two educational sessions and 50 hours of community service. Never went on my record though, no points and my insurance was not raised. It honestly almost seemed as if you get someone who is qualified in your area, the judge and lawyer will strike a deal before you even reach the stand. :lol:

**I was 17 at the time in my 5.0 I still have today**

 

[rubber duck]

Revving your car at another at a stop light could be considered intent? I have DOT drag radials on my car, does that also show intent? Maybe apples to oranges but I don't agree with that school of thought.

If I see someone wearing a ski mask and carrying a duffel bag entering a bank I'm going to stop them, not wait for a robbery to take place. Just like if I see two sports cars in front of me, one takes off at the light, then I see the other car "squat", I'm not going to wait until they reach unsafe speeds, putting others at risk, before I stop them. I should also add that in our IL statutes NO SPEED REQUIREMENT HAS TO BE MET FOR IT TO BE CONSIDERED A RACE. Whether the OP will have a conviction on his record is up to the judge, but to question the legality of the stop makes you sound pretty stupid.

And to answer your question on having drag radials on your car. Obviously that alone does not equal intent, but it can play a part of the totality of the circumstances should you get popped with a street racing charge.

 

[rubber duck]

This is a charge, it is not a conviction, and most of you "regular citizens" in here forget that. It is purely an accusation that the OP can choose to rebut. That being said, you are not "regular citizens," you are car enthusiasts who dont want their fun being curtailed. The average citizen (non-car enthusiast) wants street racing stopped. You sound like the pot smoker who is busted with a personal use amount and tells cops to find "real" criminals.

This is all that really needs to be said.

 

[WTF]

Jeez, everyone using a car's squating to signify someone is racing. I can't wait to get an tesla roadster with stiff road-racing suspension so there's no squating or loud revving/exhaust note to give clues that i'm doing something wrong.

 

[rubber duck]

Jeez, everyone using a car's squating to signify someone is racing. I can't wait to get an tesla roadster with stiff road-racing suspension so there's no squating or loud revving/exhaust note to give clues that i'm doing something wrong.

Once again the totality of the circumstances comes into play, and that's what the judge will be looking at. It's pretty funny how the OP openly admits that he started to race this guy, and yet clowns like you are still defending him. I'm guessing nothing an LEO can say to you at this point will mean anything to you, as it seems your thought process is pretty clouded.

Just out of curiosity how much weight transfer ("squatting") do you experience when taking off normally from a traffic light. I know I don't get any in my Cobra.

 

[Lt. ZO6]

True story:

I attended a town hall meeting and there were several complaints about speeding in a particular residential area of town and the fact the police were not doing enough to stop it. So I arranged to have heavy traffic enforcement conducted in that area over the several weeks.

At the next town hall meeting, the ones' complaining before were now complaining that we were spending all our time issuing tickets to hard working folks who lived in that area instead of catching the real criminals.

Sometimes you just can't win.

 

[WTF]

Once again the totality of the circumstances comes into play, and that's what the judge will be looking at. It's pretty funny how the OP openly admits that he started to race this guy, and yet clowns like you are still defending him. I'm guessing nothing an LEO can say to you at this point will mean anything to you, as it seems your thought process is pretty clouded.

Just out of curiosity how much weight transfer ("squatting") do you experience when taking off normally from a traffic light. I know I don't get any in my Cobra.

I think this is exactly where the crowd is split and aren't listen to each other, send this discussion in a never-ending loop thinking the other person's thought process is "clouded". There are those, like the "clown" above, who are hung up on the fact the OP admitted he was intending to race (after the incident on this forum) and those who know that doesn't even FRICKEN MATTER because given the facts at the moment of the arrest, admission wasn't a factor, only "squatting", "revving" and "13 mph", etc.

And to answer your question? When I first got my mustang it squatted alot actually, even under normal acceleration from a light. It's just a mustang GT after all with very low lbs/in spring rates. However over time, I've stiffen the suspension so much (MM torque arm springs in the rear 390-440lbs/in, heaving damping struts/shocks) that the car hardly squats even under WOT from a light. Cars with softer suspension, such as luxury cars such as my mother's Lexus squats heavily in the rear under normal acceleration from a stop.

The point is, squatting isn't conclusive to anything as accelerating in my mothers Lexus, from your standards, would appear to be launching at WOT from your cobra. A lawyer with any understanding of mechanics should understand this and remove squatting as a reliable interpretation of racing intent. The fact that suspension is often modifed makes it an inconstant variable. Infact it's possible to mathematically determine the exact amount the rear would squat at any given force measurement from the engine if all factors are equated (spring rate, damper rate, instant centre, etc) if one were so inclined.

But I hear what you're saying. The totality of it all. got it. :bored:

 

[rubber duck]

It's obvious you're looking for an answer you're not going to get. So why even come in here?

YOU SHOULD BE OKAY BRO! THE COP ONLY SAW YOU START TO RACE HIM! YOU WEREN'T EVEN GOING FAST! THERE'S NO WAY A JUDGE IS GOING TO CONVICT YOU!

Is that what you were looking for?

Here's what we know based on the OP's statements (which *gasp* might not completely coincide with that of the officer's).

1. He was in a sports car lined up with another sports car at a traffic light.
2. The car in the other lane took off at a high rate of acceleration.
3. The OP waited a second, then gunned it to try to fly by the other car.
4. A police officer was behind the two vehicles and witnessed the incident.

Am I missing something because this isn't that hard to get your head around.

 

[WTF]

It's obvious you're looking for an answer you're not going to get. So why even come in here? YOU SHOULD BE OKAY BRO!! THE COP ONLY SAW YOU START TO RACE HIM!!!

Is that what you were looking for?

I just a discussion on whether there's a chance the OP can fight this in court or not. I don't think there has been any conclusion yet per say but it seems as though the LEOs are saying it isn't likely he'll win as the evidence is strong enough, and laymen are saying it is likely to win this case as the evidence is weak. It would be interesting to see what some of the lawyers on this forum would say however I don't think this thread will last that long.

If you look at post #2, you'll see I actually am siding with the LEOs here that I don't think he'll win. Mainly because these traffic offense aren't given the amount of time and effort to argue it out. The court houses pump through these things as if they want a quick conclusion regardless of the facts. They tend to side with the LEOs regardless.

 

[rubber duck]

It's impossible to say what a judge will decide, even the presiding judge plays a factor. Is the judge someone who hates car enthusiasts or does he own a Mustang? It sounds stupid but even judges have their own biases. Here in Chicago (Cook County) it would probably get plead down to a minor moving violation with no suspension. In other parts of Illinois he wouldn't be as lucky.

 

[horsfias]

If I see someone wearing a ski mask and carrying a duffel bag entering a bank I'm going to stop them, not wait for a robbery to take place. Just like if I see two sports cars in front of me, one takes off at the light, then I see the other car "squat", I'm not going to wait until they reach unsafe speeds but to question the legality of the stop makes you sound pretty stupid.

And to answer your question on having drag radials on your car. Obviously that alone does not equal intent, but it can play a part of the totality of the circumstances should you get popped with a street racing charge.

Check out your robbery scenario. No crime was committed at the time of your interception of the individual with the mask/bag. In the racing example, a crime had already been committed when they were pulled over. My point earlier is based on intent not being equal to a crime. I am saying that loud exhaust or drag radials suggests racing as the ski mask/duffel bag suggest robbery but neither equal a crime. I understand that your being there to prevent these situations is needed and much appreciated but no citation should be written for acts that don't occur (this is small time, I'm not suggesting large scale terrorist plots or something haha).