I didn’t say that and 1400hp on an engine dyno is probably 1250ish through a 6060. I think the 3.6 is close just not better than the 2.65 using the standard rear feed inlet.
3.6 KB vs VMP Gen3R test
- Thread starter 2011 gtcs
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I didn’t say that and 1400hp on an engine dyno is probably 1250ish through a 6060. I think the 3.6 is close just not better than the 2.65 using the standard rear feed inlet.
For a street build, I’ll agree. For a balls out track build...well... as I say to my ex wife... I’ll agree to disagree.
Have a merry Christmas. Tis the season to hand out some Gapplebees gift cards to hellcats, vettes, and other GT500s. If you run into a 3.6LC, make sure you powershift and don’t miss.
I am sure a cut cowl straight feed twin 106 2.65 will do pretty well on a racecar
Merry Christmas to you as well.
A reply that may have been overlooked (or pasted over) in this discussion was posted by KB.
So where can restriction (power robbing) areas be? Well, they are either going to be before the blower (CAI, TB etc.), or under/past the blower (I/C, engine, exhaust), right?
Is there a specific reason why the Ford/SVT engineers upgraded the CFM "flow through" of the I/C on the 2013 when they installed the TVS? Is this something that is overlooked when owners are in search of a bigger blower? The bigger blower gets bolted on and the I/C "flow through" just below the blower is completely overlooked. Then bolt an even larger blower on the smaller flowing 2007-2012 I/C...............More restriction?
I am not an engineer, but I'll bet the Ford/SVT guys spent a lot of time on this and made the I/C change for a reason. it would have been a lot cheaper to just keep the "already in production" 2007-2012 I/C in place under the 2013 TVS.
...............and then that brings us to the even larger CFM flow KB BIGUN I/C. How many owners plunk out the $$$ for it when they install a Biggy blower? As it seemed to be indicated by the Ford/SVT engineers, a simple/small upgrade in blower size from 2012 to 2013 required a new/larger flow capacity for the larger TVS.
^^^^^^Just some points to ponder during this Christmas season......Merry Christmas.
R
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Well gotdam, that YouTube vid sure gave some controversy.
I'm most interested to see what the guy ends up running at the track with the only change being the SC.
As one of the few guys here that uses dynos for more than numbers, I'm in the TVS camp.
That said, I think KB and Whipple SC's are great, but like anything in this game, it depends on the combination.
As far as a 3.6 spun 18,000rpm and a 2.65 spun 26,000 rpm, which one is flowing more air? Serious question.
The TVS has OEM Eaton rotor packs that have been historically proven to take overspeed reliably, at least in drag applications.
I could have bought any of the big 3 blowers, but I felt for a 90% street car, the TVS gives more than most guys will ever want, and doesn't risk my stock crank, even if it's double keyed.
I am in the middle of upgrading my Gen 3 to a maxed 3R (or something else ), but when you whack the throttle on my overspun Gen 3 TVS, you better be ready for 950rwtq. The torque curve and response of the TVS is awesome and VERY friendly to manual trans street cars.
As several guys have mentioned in this thread, drag guys that want more blower and have a built motor with crank upgrades, have options in the 4L+ KBs and Whipples.
Still, a more aggressively pullied TVS car compared with a lazy bigger twin screw just feels better on the street and runs away at the strip.
The biggest factor people forget on our 5.4/5.8 GT500s is the lower intake and intercooler.
That is your restriction, so the bigger blowers won't perform as strong as they could if you don't address the biggest restriction first.
I run a KB Biggun cooler and a max ported lower intake.
Also one reason why the new top mount SC will always have an advantage.
For now, I'll be happy with my 4000+# race weight full interior/accessory street car running mid 9s over 150 with a TVS.
-J
I'm most interested to see what the guy ends up running at the track with the only change being the SC.
As one of the few guys here that uses dynos for more than numbers, I'm in the TVS camp.
That said, I think KB and Whipple SC's are great, but like anything in this game, it depends on the combination.
As far as a 3.6 spun 18,000rpm and a 2.65 spun 26,000 rpm, which one is flowing more air? Serious question.
The TVS has OEM Eaton rotor packs that have been historically proven to take overspeed reliably, at least in drag applications.
I could have bought any of the big 3 blowers, but I felt for a 90% street car, the TVS gives more than most guys will ever want, and doesn't risk my stock crank, even if it's double keyed.
I am in the middle of upgrading my Gen 3 to a maxed 3R (or something else
), but when you whack the throttle on my overspun Gen 3 TVS, you better be ready for 950rwtq. The torque curve and response of the TVS is awesome and VERY friendly to manual trans street cars.As several guys have mentioned in this thread, drag guys that want more blower and have a built motor with crank upgrades, have options in the 4L+ KBs and Whipples.
Still, a more aggressively pullied TVS car compared with a lazy bigger twin screw just feels better on the street and runs away at the strip.
The biggest factor people forget on our 5.4/5.8 GT500s is the lower intake and intercooler.
That is your restriction, so the bigger blowers won't perform as strong as they could if you don't address the biggest restriction first.
I run a KB Biggun cooler and a max ported lower intake.
Also one reason why the new top mount SC will always have an advantage.
For now, I'll be happy with my 4000+# race weight full interior/accessory street car running mid 9s over 150 with a TVS.
-J
Off question to those who drag race exclusively. Since the intercooler tends to be a restriction has anyone removed it all together? Or would it even be worth it?
You need a way to cool that hot air going into the engine, with a blower mounted onto the engine that’s direct heat going into the already hot combustion chamber.
For a PD blower no it’s not a good choice to remove. For centri blowers and turbos, that’s exactly what happens for most.
At least for more hardcore drag setups.
-J
At least for more hardcore drag setups.
-J
FYI.....Anybody that calls a large displacement KB or Whipple "Lazy" on the street has never had one properly dialed in.....our just never had one.....my 4.2 makes 760ftlbs of torque at 2600 RPM's.....I've had a max effort TVS, 3.4 Whipple and 4.2 KB.....they are all good blowers but the KB is the only one that put my car consistently in the 8's and is way more repeatable at the track. The 4.2 is an absolute beast on the street and like a TVS will give you more power and torque than your street tires can handle.
You’re making my point; meaning if you want the top level track performance, you go right to the 4L twin screws.
The majority running 3.4 Whipples or 3.6 KBs on street cars don’t have them turned up. And even when the do, a maximized Gen3R will likely match their performance. A lot of that goes back to the fact that the Eaton TVS can be overspun, and when you do that, the size of the 3L twin screws makes little benefit.
Again, if you really want 8sec performance you’re better with the 4L blowers.
For me, I’ll take my maxed TVS for my STREET car.
-J
Agreed, and well said. Size it and set it up right.
The low rpm 2.65 torque curve from this video looks a hell of a lot lazier than the 3.6’s. The 2.65 is down 130 ft lbs at low RPM and makes 40 lb ft less peak torque. If I were the owner of the car, I’d be upset that I burned that cash on a new kit. As said before, trap speeds would ultimately tell the tale, assuming no other changes were made.
You about have his trap speed matched with a much smaller blower. 2.65 vs 4.2. That is impressive, no 2 ways about it.
Average power wins races. A maxed out 2.65 making 1200 will beat a 1200hp under spun twin screw making the same peak power. The problem now is the small maxed out 2.65 is making the same or close to what the 3.6/4.2/4.0 does maxed out as well.
That’s exactly why you just size it right and don’t underspin it. Overspun IAT2s are bad news. To me, it looks like there’s significantly more area under the 3.6 curve in the graphic that overlays both curves from the video. Meh. Let’s see the trap speeds.
I'm not making any point other then a large displacement blower is NASTY on the street and certainly not lazy....I'm running 8.5's @ 163 @ 3986 with driver....you are running 9.5's @ 155 @ 4000.....not sure me beating you by 230ft+ would be a super impressive look for the TVS.....lol.....It is a killer blower and performs well above its displacement and I'm sure its the perfect blower for your set up otherwise you would be running something different....you are looked upon as one of the most knowledgeable posters on this forum....just wanted to set the record straight on running a large displacement blower on a street/strip set up.
I will overlay my graph against any 1200hp 3.6+ twin screw 5.4 combo. The SS 2650 in the VMP comparison purposely gives up lower rpm power and tq to make more peak power. The car in the vid needs to be spun harder and needs more rpm to really utilize the Gen3RSS. The TVS does not have overspun iat2 issues with proper cooling mods. That’s the beauty of it.
Send me the winpep file of your 6060 5.4 4.2 KB pull if you want to compare them
Send me your dyno file....lol......I'll see you at the track....lol....let me know when you start running 8.5's at 4000lbs.....I haven't updated my #'s or been on the dyno in years...
Yes! I’ll buy front row tickets lol
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Sent from my iPhone using svtperformance.com
Oh yea so you want to compare chassis trans etc...not power. I don’t blame ya
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