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SVT Shelby GT500
3.6 KB vs VMP Gen3R test
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<blockquote data-quote="Kenne Bell" data-source="post: 16338905" data-attributes="member: 13389"><p>There is an abundance of hype, HP quotes, opinions and theories on superchargers. As a supercharger manufacturer, one can only offer credible test data, our reputation and our satisfied customers as proof of KB product performance. Our design engineers refer to the Kenne Bell supercharger dyno as the "Industry Lie Detector." We simply mount the superchargers on the dyno with an unrestricted open inlet, adjust the boost/cfm and then measure the engine power required to drive it, and all the various temps, including the case - and RPM of course. There is no better way. Now to Justin's remarks.</p><p></p><p><strong>2.65 Gen 3 "The Rattler" - </strong>A year ago, a customer purchased and paid good money to VMP for what he was told was the latest greatest 2.65 Gen 3 kit we affectionately call "The Rattler." He decided he wanted the larger KB 3.6. To eliminate any and all dyno, cooling, heating, weather, inlet system, boost, tuning, etc. variables, we than tested and compared the Gen 3 2.65 to the KB 3.6 on our supercharger dyno at the same boost. See dyno graphs. While running the Gen 3 at 23,000 RPM (6000 RPM or 28% less RPM than you claim 2.65 rotors are safe for). At the end of the tests, rattling revealed the front plastic coupler had melted and dissolved into the oil supply and ruined all the bearings. The "Rattler" was then retired until we could replace the coupler. And yes, Rick called VMP, Magnuson and every Eaton Dealer we could locate in the U.S. Even the Eaton factory. Rick spent months on this. No one told Rick the 2.65 was obsolete already. Feel free to call Rick and verify. Not one could locate a coupler for us. We still need the part to this day. Looking at the Eaton literature, it appears to be a common problem.</p><p></p><p>But in the post you now say this VMP Gen 3 the customer purchased in 2019 is already obsolete as the new 2.65 Gen 3R is "much more efficient than the old Gen 3, makes less heat, takes less power to drive and shows with dyno 75-150RWHP higher than our old blower is." That is B.S. Efficiency? IMO, that is hype. 150 more RWHP. Maybe you forgot 8 psi boost. Gotta find out just how good - if at all - it is. So we get new 2.65 Gen 3R to test. Our supercharger dyno tests of the Gen 3 and Gen 3R don't indicate anything close to 150HP - unless you changed the boost which is not the way to compare supercharger efficiency.</p><p></p><p><strong>2.65 Gen 3R "Ol' Smokey" - </strong>At only 23,000 and 22 psi, it was very hot at the recommended oil level, so the level was lowered 50%. Try again. Didn't want to burn another 2.65 up. Even then it ended poorly by burning paint off the 2.65 and smoking our engineers out of the dyno room at 444° (see heat gun laser temp at 444°. The drive then failed knocking the bearing out. We disassembled "Ol Smokey" Gen 3R and discovered the plastic coupler was not melted as in the 2.65 Gen 3. Some good news. Apparently that issue is cured. However, there was coating missing off the rotors and the case bore (see photos). Fortunately, it blew out of the supercharger into the dyno air vent. It would have ended up in an engine. Yet another advantage of testing on the supercharger dyno. Frankly, we have seen too much of these rotor coatings peeling, chipping and scraping off Eatons coated rotors over the years. Not good for any engine or supercharger efficiency. And expensive to R&R and recoat (approx. $400). So, we stick to testing these 2.65's on the Supercharger Dyno only.</p><p></p><p>First, it was the "ultimate" supercharger, the undersized 2.3 Gen 2. Admittedly I get confused on Gen 1, 2, 3, 4 and SS's, since every new model is hyped as the latest in technology with 3x3, 4x4, 4x4 twisted and finaly 4x4 twisted 2.65. All little 2L's. What we do know is that Kenne Bell has been replacing/upgrading Ford Eatons since the '99 Lightning. That's why we test them all. That aside Justin, the supposedly latest VMP 2.65 Gen 3 was purchased in 2019 as you now claim.</p><p></p><p>As always, there was no damage whatsoever to the 3.2 or 3.6 at the same 22 psi and CFM . . . which used 50 less engine HP and was 55° cooler. And the cooler running 3.2 and 3.6 came through with flying colors.</p><p></p><p>If there's a newer new version, send it and we would be more than happy to test it for you.</p><p></p><p>P.S. Our Rick would like to know if you would warranty the customers 1 year old Gen3 with the melted coupler, contaminated bearings and resurface the rotors and case?</p><p></p><p>P.S.S. Also, can we get a warranty on the Gen 3R drive? Neither was turned anywhere near the 29,000 you recommend. Only 23,ooo max. The boost was only 22 psi - nowhere near the 28 psi.</p><p></p><p></p><p>[ATTACH=full]1615345[/ATTACH]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Kenne Bell, post: 16338905, member: 13389"] There is an abundance of hype, HP quotes, opinions and theories on superchargers. As a supercharger manufacturer, one can only offer credible test data, our reputation and our satisfied customers as proof of KB product performance. Our design engineers refer to the Kenne Bell supercharger dyno as the "Industry Lie Detector." We simply mount the superchargers on the dyno with an unrestricted open inlet, adjust the boost/cfm and then measure the engine power required to drive it, and all the various temps, including the case - and RPM of course. There is no better way. Now to Justin's remarks. [b]2.65 Gen 3 "The Rattler" - [/b]A year ago, a customer purchased and paid good money to VMP for what he was told was the latest greatest 2.65 Gen 3 kit we affectionately call "The Rattler." He decided he wanted the larger KB 3.6. To eliminate any and all dyno, cooling, heating, weather, inlet system, boost, tuning, etc. variables, we than tested and compared the Gen 3 2.65 to the KB 3.6 on our supercharger dyno at the same boost. See dyno graphs. While running the Gen 3 at 23,000 RPM (6000 RPM or 28% less RPM than you claim 2.65 rotors are safe for). At the end of the tests, rattling revealed the front plastic coupler had melted and dissolved into the oil supply and ruined all the bearings. The "Rattler" was then retired until we could replace the coupler. And yes, Rick called VMP, Magnuson and every Eaton Dealer we could locate in the U.S. Even the Eaton factory. Rick spent months on this. No one told Rick the 2.65 was obsolete already. Feel free to call Rick and verify. Not one could locate a coupler for us. We still need the part to this day. Looking at the Eaton literature, it appears to be a common problem. But in the post you now say this VMP Gen 3 the customer purchased in 2019 is already obsolete as the new 2.65 Gen 3R is "much more efficient than the old Gen 3, makes less heat, takes less power to drive and shows with dyno 75-150RWHP higher than our old blower is." That is B.S. Efficiency? IMO, that is hype. 150 more RWHP. Maybe you forgot 8 psi boost. Gotta find out just how good - if at all - it is. So we get new 2.65 Gen 3R to test. Our supercharger dyno tests of the Gen 3 and Gen 3R don't indicate anything close to 150HP - unless you changed the boost which is not the way to compare supercharger efficiency. [b]2.65 Gen 3R "Ol' Smokey" - [/b]At only 23,000 and 22 psi, it was very hot at the recommended oil level, so the level was lowered 50%. Try again. Didn't want to burn another 2.65 up. Even then it ended poorly by burning paint off the 2.65 and smoking our engineers out of the dyno room at 444° (see heat gun laser temp at 444°. The drive then failed knocking the bearing out. We disassembled "Ol Smokey" Gen 3R and discovered the plastic coupler was not melted as in the 2.65 Gen 3. Some good news. Apparently that issue is cured. However, there was coating missing off the rotors and the case bore (see photos). Fortunately, it blew out of the supercharger into the dyno air vent. It would have ended up in an engine. Yet another advantage of testing on the supercharger dyno. Frankly, we have seen too much of these rotor coatings peeling, chipping and scraping off Eatons coated rotors over the years. Not good for any engine or supercharger efficiency. And expensive to R&R and recoat (approx. $400). So, we stick to testing these 2.65's on the Supercharger Dyno only. First, it was the "ultimate" supercharger, the undersized 2.3 Gen 2. Admittedly I get confused on Gen 1, 2, 3, 4 and SS's, since every new model is hyped as the latest in technology with 3x3, 4x4, 4x4 twisted and finaly 4x4 twisted 2.65. All little 2L's. What we do know is that Kenne Bell has been replacing/upgrading Ford Eatons since the '99 Lightning. That's why we test them all. That aside Justin, the supposedly latest VMP 2.65 Gen 3 was purchased in 2019 as you now claim. As always, there was no damage whatsoever to the 3.2 or 3.6 at the same 22 psi and CFM . . . which used 50 less engine HP and was 55° cooler. And the cooler running 3.2 and 3.6 came through with flying colors. If there's a newer new version, send it and we would be more than happy to test it for you. P.S. Our Rick would like to know if you would warranty the customers 1 year old Gen3 with the melted coupler, contaminated bearings and resurface the rotors and case? P.S.S. Also, can we get a warranty on the Gen 3R drive? Neither was turned anywhere near the 29,000 you recommend. Only 23,ooo max. The boost was only 22 psi - nowhere near the 28 psi. [ATTACH=full]1615345[/ATTACH] [/QUOTE]
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