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2015+ Shelby GT350 Mustang
820/548 with a whipple gen 3 on 93
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<blockquote data-quote="ANGREY" data-source="post: 15764325" data-attributes="member: 188865"><p>The low(er) torque numbers are because the engine breaths so well and doesn't have sufficient backup pressure down low to build low end torque.</p><p></p><p>Wanna low end torque monster? Take the stock headers off and throw a manifold on it. It'll have lots of torque. Won't breath for shit up top or make gobs of power, but it'll pull stumps out of the ground.</p><p></p><p>That's why it's never smart to put long tube headers on a rock crawler. Off road trucks and such aren't meant to be at high rpm and need low end torque. The GT350 is the opposite end of the spectrum. It's not designed to grunt from a dig or tow stuff, it's designed to operate up high (and breath) going in and coming out of turns, ripping down straightaways, etc.</p><p></p><p>Throwing charge (boost) on the engine will help, but you can ONLY do that so much with a stock compression at 12:1.</p><p></p><p>Wanna make big torque down low with the 350? Swap the heads (and/or pistons) out and lower the compression to say 9.5:1, then you can take the pulley down really small and crank the spin of the blower up so that it boosts up down low to like 12-15 psi, then you'll see big low end torque.</p><p></p><p>But again, who would want that? All you're going to do in an IRS car with massive low end torque is create an undriveable stat warrior who looks good on paper, but does shitty on the street.</p><p></p><p>Which is EXACTLY why you see so many idiots racing from a roll. They don't have the suspension or the gearing or the tire to race from a dig (or the skill) and racing from a roll is much easier and doesn't require any skill or any other systems to be great.</p><p></p><p>Not only will you not have a driveable street car, now you'll also have problems upping gears and not spinning the wheels at the track. You'll have a car that's the worst of all worlds, shitty from a dig, shitty around the track and slightly more weight on the front to upset the balance (although that's a minor issue).</p><p></p><p>The only place it will remotely shine at that point is these new age half mile roll races, and to be competitive there you'd better drop $100k and have like 4 turbos and full on race fuel and lexan.</p><p></p><p>700-800 rwhp and 500 ft-lb is more than enough for the suspension and tires on the 350 and what it's made to do.</p><p></p><p>And not for nothing, we could debate all day long about the safety of 93 (or how it isn't safe) and the benefits of running E-85 or even race fuel. We could talk about the safe/reasonable limitations of the stock 350 internals and even with a nice fat/safe tune what they're REASONABLY able to handle.</p><p></p><p>Any stock engine, even with powdered cast parts can make a boatload of power if tuned out very nicely with no disagreement, no bad fuel, no hiccups. The reason you use forged and billet components is to have way more yield strength capacity than needed, so that a bad batch of fuel, some unhappy conditions, etc, don't stress the internals beyond their limits.</p><p></p><p>You can make 700-800 rwhp without unsafely stressing the stock compression ratio, or the "forged" internals (with aluminum pistons) and without making the blower pulley so small that you need 1000 lbs of force on the tensioner to run without major belt slip (and cranking the snout so badly it totally strains the balance of the motor).</p><p></p><p>Anything above all that and one of these challenges is going to eventually come into play. </p><p></p><p>It's no different than a 5'4" man shooting up with steroids trying to bench press 600 lbs. His size and frame isn't made for it and although he's grown his muscles (unnaturally), his joints, tendons, ligaments and bones are all not grown commensurate with his strength and eventually something is going to break.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ANGREY, post: 15764325, member: 188865"] The low(er) torque numbers are because the engine breaths so well and doesn't have sufficient backup pressure down low to build low end torque. Wanna low end torque monster? Take the stock headers off and throw a manifold on it. It'll have lots of torque. Won't breath for shit up top or make gobs of power, but it'll pull stumps out of the ground. That's why it's never smart to put long tube headers on a rock crawler. Off road trucks and such aren't meant to be at high rpm and need low end torque. The GT350 is the opposite end of the spectrum. It's not designed to grunt from a dig or tow stuff, it's designed to operate up high (and breath) going in and coming out of turns, ripping down straightaways, etc. Throwing charge (boost) on the engine will help, but you can ONLY do that so much with a stock compression at 12:1. Wanna make big torque down low with the 350? Swap the heads (and/or pistons) out and lower the compression to say 9.5:1, then you can take the pulley down really small and crank the spin of the blower up so that it boosts up down low to like 12-15 psi, then you'll see big low end torque. But again, who would want that? All you're going to do in an IRS car with massive low end torque is create an undriveable stat warrior who looks good on paper, but does shitty on the street. Which is EXACTLY why you see so many idiots racing from a roll. They don't have the suspension or the gearing or the tire to race from a dig (or the skill) and racing from a roll is much easier and doesn't require any skill or any other systems to be great. Not only will you not have a driveable street car, now you'll also have problems upping gears and not spinning the wheels at the track. You'll have a car that's the worst of all worlds, shitty from a dig, shitty around the track and slightly more weight on the front to upset the balance (although that's a minor issue). The only place it will remotely shine at that point is these new age half mile roll races, and to be competitive there you'd better drop $100k and have like 4 turbos and full on race fuel and lexan. 700-800 rwhp and 500 ft-lb is more than enough for the suspension and tires on the 350 and what it's made to do. And not for nothing, we could debate all day long about the safety of 93 (or how it isn't safe) and the benefits of running E-85 or even race fuel. We could talk about the safe/reasonable limitations of the stock 350 internals and even with a nice fat/safe tune what they're REASONABLY able to handle. Any stock engine, even with powdered cast parts can make a boatload of power if tuned out very nicely with no disagreement, no bad fuel, no hiccups. The reason you use forged and billet components is to have way more yield strength capacity than needed, so that a bad batch of fuel, some unhappy conditions, etc, don't stress the internals beyond their limits. You can make 700-800 rwhp without unsafely stressing the stock compression ratio, or the "forged" internals (with aluminum pistons) and without making the blower pulley so small that you need 1000 lbs of force on the tensioner to run without major belt slip (and cranking the snout so badly it totally strains the balance of the motor). Anything above all that and one of these challenges is going to eventually come into play. It's no different than a 5'4" man shooting up with steroids trying to bench press 600 lbs. His size and frame isn't made for it and although he's grown his muscles (unnaturally), his joints, tendons, ligaments and bones are all not grown commensurate with his strength and eventually something is going to break. [/QUOTE]
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820/548 with a whipple gen 3 on 93
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