Aluminum block

[blueovalkid]

Ok Fourcam our resident Mod motor guru. How much to replace the FE block in the GT500 with a aluminum one? (GT or Sean Hyland Motorsports- which is better?) Also with upgraded rods and pistons? Crank? Do you think it would be worth the weight savings and increased durability? Dont hold back give us all the juicy tech and specs! Thanks!

 

[miatafreak]

i bet it's 9-10k total and maybe 80lbs.

personally i'd just go 5.0 and swap the 5.4 top end over to it including the blower. if that's possible. i'm not sure. if it is that will only cost you about 3k, you'll lose 250lbs and gain an easy 200hp.

 

[jwfisher]

Probably 10-12 grand and save 150 pounds.

 

[blueovalkid]

Fourcam?....

 

[Fourcam330]

My GT block cost $2450. Add $800 for the a Peterson (same as Nascar) external wet sump setup, or $3100 for an Aviad dry sump--this is of course assuming that the GT500 oiling system won't bolt up to a GT block. So ~$3500 for a machined ready to go (in a Mustang) bare GT block.
The OEM forged crank has been proven past 1500HP so no need to swap it. Toss the stock rods/pistons in favor of either forged 4340 H beams ($450-550 per set) if staying under 750HP and 6200-6500rpm, or Oliver/Carillo billets (1400HP and 8000rpm) for ~$1300, rod bolt upgrade: ~$100, and custom CP pistons ($900) in either case.
Rings, bearings, ARP longblock hardware: $700-800, and $350-400 to assemble the shortblock.
So around $6000 with forged rods, and around $6800 with billets with high quality components.

non NVH Fe block: 177lbs
NVH Fe block: 201lbs
GT block: ~100lbs

GT500 is coming with the non NVH block, which has held 1400HP+ before failing (1434 actually). As far as I know no one has actually deformed one besides the Ford test engineers.

 

[Fourcam330]

i bet it's 9-10k total and maybe 80lbs.

personally i'd just go 5.0 and swap the 5.4 top end over to it including the blower. if that's possible. i'm not sure. if it is that will only cost you about 3k, you'll lose 250lbs and gain an easy 200hp.

You've got to be a troll. If you're talking big bore 305 or stroker 302 (both 4.6 modular based) the swap isn't possible due to many differences including deck height. If you're talking 302 windsor it's time for another 12 step program.
They are completely different motors with completely different dimensions. Even if it was possible it would make less power.

 

[miatafreak]

yes they are different but not that different size wise (without the heads). the newer heads will physically fit atop the older block. i know cause i've seen this. it should just be a matter of making new bolt holes or some kind of adapter plates like they had back in the day to put cleveland heads on a winsor motor. i

if you think it would make less power do the math, best 5.4 n/a made 390hp. 5.0 has a .5" larger bore. multiply that .5" by 8 for the # of cylinders and then multiply that number by 3 for the stroke of the 302. you get 120 and that is how much hp the 5.0 will make over the 5.4 with the same heads, intake, and cams. so 510 total hp for the 302 n/a, but we're talking supercharged here. so you find the power increase percentage the 5.4 pics up with the blower and that's roughly 15%. add this 15% to the 510hp for the n/a 302 and you get 586hp. this is 136 more hp than the supercharged 5.4 is making and that's still not accounting for the fact that the 5.0 has larger bores and can take in and handle more air. so ireally you could probably double that hp difference when all is said and done.

 

[Fourcam330]

yes they are different but not that different size wise (without the heads). the newer heads will physically fit atop the older block. i know cause i've seen this. it should just be a matter of making new bolt holes or some kind of adapter plates like they had back in the day to put cleveland heads on a winsor motor.

They do not share bore spacing, if this was even feasible it would have been done already.

if you think it would make less power do the math, best 5.4 n/a made 390hp. 5.0 has a .5" larger bore. multiply that .5" by 8 for the # of cylinders and then multiply that number by 3 for the stroke of the 302. you get 120 and that is how much hp the 5.0 will make over the 5.4 with the same heads, intake, and cams.

ROFL, how in the world did you come up with that formula??? Another Darwin Award nominee. :loser:

so 510 total hp for the 302 n/a, but we're talking supercharged here. so you find the power increase percentage the 5.4 pics up with the blower and that's roughly 15%. add this 15% to the 510hp for the n/a 302 and you get 586hp. this is 136 more hp than the supercharged 5.4 is making and that's still not accounting for the fact that the 5.0 has larger bores and can take in and handle more air. so ireally you could probably double that hp difference when all is said and done.

You've just convinced me, no one can be this dumb. TROLL

 

[miatafreak]

They do not share bore spacing, if this was even feasible it would have been done already.

Well it took 15-20 years to make the adapter plates for the windsor with celeveland heads so give it some time.

ROFL, how in the world did you come up with that formula??? Another Darwin Award nominee.

it's just basic math and physics. they teach it in high school. i gues maybe you're one of those "good enough diploma" folks.

You've just convinced me, no one can be this dumb. TROLL

you've just convinced me that you are an ass. i keep showing you the facts on this matter and you just completely ignore them. a ,man would step up and admit they were wrong, but not you. you got to resort to name calling if someone doesn't agree with you wether you're right or wrong. just like some little bastard ass kid but you're grown so there aint no excuse for that. none whatsoever.

 

[Fourcam330]

Well it took 15-20 years to make the adapter plates for the windsor with celeveland heads so give it some time.




it's just basic math and physics. they teach it in high school. i gues maybe you're one of those "good enough diploma" folks.



you've just convinced me that you are an ass. i keep showing you the facts on this matter and you just completely ignore them. a ,man would step up and admit they were wrong, but not you. you got to resort to name calling if someone doesn't agree with you wether you're right or wrong. just like some little bastard ass kid but you're grown so there aint no excuse for that. none whatsoever.

You haven't been right about anything since you began posting troll.

 

[Black2003Cobra]

Huh?? Physics must have changed since I was in school. Or is this that new math I’ve heard about?

First off, displacement goes as the square of the bore size…not linearly. (You know…good ol’ A = pi*R^2, R = bore/2, and Vcyl = A*stroke). Secondly, power goes in direct proportion to displacement (to first order), and 5.4L > 5.0L. (Did I really need to write that?) Therefore, assuming the same volumetric efficiency, same compression ratio, same rpm, blah blah blah, a 5.4L motor will produce approximately 8% more power than a 5.0L displacement motor, (100%*[5.4/5.0 - 1] = 8%). In other words, a 5.4L motor will make 1.08 times that of a 5.0L motor, all else being equal.

 

[jwfisher]

you've just convinced me that you are an ass. i keep showing you the facts on this matter and you just completely ignore them. a ,man would step up and admit they were wrong, but not you. you got to resort to name calling if someone doesn't agree with you wether you're right or wrong. just like some little bastard ass kid but you're grown so there aint no excuse for that. none whatsoever.

Right on!

 

[blueovalkid]

Right on!

You know something is wrong if jwfishlips agrees with you! :-D

 

[Fourcam330]

Right on!

I'll extend the same offer to you JW. Call me out on any misinformation I've posted except the one off FR500 blower/dual TB intake piece. ROFL, did you even read any of Miatafreak's posts? :lol:

 

[Fourcam330]

if you think it would make less power do the math, best 5.4 n/a made 390hp. 5.0 has a .5" larger bore. multiply that .5" by 8 for the # of cylinders and then multiply that number by 3 for the stroke of the 302. you get 120 and that is how much hp the 5.0 will make over the 5.4 with the same heads, intake, and cams. so 510 total hp for the 302 n/a, but we're talking supercharged here. so you find the power increase percentage the 5.4 pics up with the blower and that's roughly 15%. add this 15% to the 510hp for the n/a 302 and you get 586hp. this is 136 more hp than the supercharged 5.4 is making and that's still not accounting for the fact that the 5.0 has larger bores and can take in and handle more air. so ireally you could probably double that hp difference when all is said and done.

Explain your logic, JW, feel free to chime in... op: :lol: