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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
Road Side Pub
"Clean air act"
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<blockquote data-quote="FordMoCo21" data-source="post: 16594473" data-attributes="member: 104388"><p>Back after taking a breather.</p><p></p><p>I have some thoughts I know will go against the grain after more research.</p><p></p><p>If a well thought out dialogue is too much for you to handle, and you're going to complain about wordiness, **** off before you even start.</p><p></p><p>VMP as noted was hit with $60k in fines a few years ago. They are still in business. They are still tuning. They are still selling parts. They are also not publicly freaking out about this like Lund is. SURELY Lund knew about VMP getting hit years ago, so why are they JUST now acting like it's a new thing? Because they finally got a visit? Likely. Diesel shops have been getting hit since like 2016 as well...</p><p></p><p>Diesel tuners and aftermarket parts suppliers which were hit with fines are also still in business. Now years later. Performance Diesel Inc. is one example, $1.1Mil in fines in 2019. Site is still up. Still selling tunes, turbos, manifolds, etc. However NOT "defeat" devices nor tunes which allow defeat devices to function properly.</p><p></p><p>The ONLY people I have seen mention that the EPA is coming after every single modification are SEMA and Lund. Both have mentioned intakes, superchargers, "exhaust" vaguely. I do not see where the EPA has fined any of these companies in the past 4-5 years for anything OTHER THAN cat deletes/EGR deletes and/or tuning for those items. The EPA has specifically stated in each of their company "cases" filed, that the goal was to fine for "defeat devices". Superchargers, turbos, intakes are not defeat devices. And this is why these companies that were already hit are still selling them... <strong>Don't you think if the EPA really wanted to hit them on all fronts those other parts would've been figured into the fines, and they would also now not be allowed to sell them right now?</strong></p><p><strong></strong></p><p><strong><a href="https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/national-compliance-initiative-stopping-aftermarket-defeat-devices-vehicles-and-engines" target="_blank">National Compliance Initiative: Stopping Aftermarket Defeat Devices for Vehicles and Engines | US EPA</a></strong></p><p></p><p>I do not see basic modding, intake/supercharger(with EGR), injectors, normal tune with emissions all ON, being at stake here... and that is exactly what SEMA/Lund are making it out to be... Is it because if everyone knew this was solely about cats/egr/evap there wouldn't be enough outrage to run forward with? That's my opinion.</p><p></p><p>"<em><strong>Section 203 (a)(3)(b) of the Clean Air Act (CAA), 42 U.S.C. Sec. 7522(a)(3)(b), prohib its the manufacture, selling, or installation of any device that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative a required element of the vehicle's emissions control system.</strong></em>"</p><p>A proper tune/cold air intake/cat back, injectors and most superchargers do not "bypass, defeat, or render inoperative" the emissions control system unless you remove the cats/egr/evap. Why do you think the Ford Racing/Roush supercharger kits and other mod stuff is kosher? Because they don't turn that shit off in the tune! Also it's okay in Cali because of the CARB EOs...</p><p></p><p>Yes, Cali and a select few other states(just in certain counties even) do require CARB EO parts. Cali has been like this for over a decade, absolutely nothing new. THIS is what would effectively kill the hobby, as there's VERY limited parts that currently have CARB EO certs. And it costs a shit ton apparently to get the CARB EO. If the EPA adopted the CARB EO mantra, then yes shit would be getting more real then. But EVEN then, companies can jump through the hoops to get the cert and sell their parts. It truly seems to me, the tuners do not want to pay these CARB certs, and therefor are acting like every single thing is under attack. When it is not. The 2020-2023 EPA "Initiative" SPECIFCALLY states this is about DEFEAT DEVICES and tunes that allow these defeat devices to operate. They DO NOT state that tunes in general are under attack. Again, previous companies hit and "raided" are still in business with tunes... Diesel shops, VMP... This initiative is now more public than ever in the car community, but it has been going on for like 5 years.</p><p></p><p>Even if the CARB EO parts standard went into effect at the Federal level, I strongly doubt every state will comply cordially... there is a metric shit ton of counties that do not currently even have regular, basic inspections, let alone all the extra equipment and personnel needed for proper SMOG and CARB EO parts checks. Catalytic converters have been a federal offense for removing for DECADES now, and still the Feds have no way of making the states MANDATE this(the states/counties that don't do annual inspections I mean), other than a dealership needs to make sure the car has cats before selling... think about it.</p><p></p><p>The bottom line is, worst case scenario has the Feds adopting CARB compliance (which is NOT what the RPM Act, nor the current EPA initiative is even about mind you), and you cannot mod unless the part you are adding has the CARB EO number. Then on top of that annua/semi annual inspections would need to occur in every single county in the country to enforce it. Parts suppliers WILL go through this process to get certified, they just won't LIKE it. Same with tuners.</p><p></p><p>Will 6/7/8 second cars with VINs potentially go away? Yes. THAT is the issue I see. Some cars are truly unable to operate without a cat delete. They just can't run at that level of performance. However, for the basic hobbyist you can run cats/egr/evap on a 9 second car/road racing build, etc...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FordMoCo21, post: 16594473, member: 104388"] Back after taking a breather. I have some thoughts I know will go against the grain after more research. If a well thought out dialogue is too much for you to handle, and you're going to complain about wordiness, **** off before you even start. VMP as noted was hit with $60k in fines a few years ago. They are still in business. They are still tuning. They are still selling parts. They are also not publicly freaking out about this like Lund is. SURELY Lund knew about VMP getting hit years ago, so why are they JUST now acting like it's a new thing? Because they finally got a visit? Likely. Diesel shops have been getting hit since like 2016 as well... Diesel tuners and aftermarket parts suppliers which were hit with fines are also still in business. Now years later. Performance Diesel Inc. is one example, $1.1Mil in fines in 2019. Site is still up. Still selling tunes, turbos, manifolds, etc. However NOT "defeat" devices nor tunes which allow defeat devices to function properly. The ONLY people I have seen mention that the EPA is coming after every single modification are SEMA and Lund. Both have mentioned intakes, superchargers, "exhaust" vaguely. I do not see where the EPA has fined any of these companies in the past 4-5 years for anything OTHER THAN cat deletes/EGR deletes and/or tuning for those items. The EPA has specifically stated in each of their company "cases" filed, that the goal was to fine for "defeat devices". Superchargers, turbos, intakes are not defeat devices. And this is why these companies that were already hit are still selling them... [b]Don't you think if the EPA really wanted to hit them on all fronts those other parts would've been figured into the fines, and they would also now not be allowed to sell them right now? [URL="https://www.epa.gov/enforcement/national-compliance-initiative-stopping-aftermarket-defeat-devices-vehicles-and-engines"]National Compliance Initiative: Stopping Aftermarket Defeat Devices for Vehicles and Engines | US EPA[/URL][/b] I do not see basic modding, intake/supercharger(with EGR), injectors, normal tune with emissions all ON, being at stake here... and that is exactly what SEMA/Lund are making it out to be... Is it because if everyone knew this was solely about cats/egr/evap there wouldn't be enough outrage to run forward with? That's my opinion. "[i][b]Section 203 (a)(3)(b) of the Clean Air Act (CAA), 42 U.S.C. Sec. 7522(a)(3)(b), prohib its the manufacture, selling, or installation of any device that bypasses, defeats, or renders inoperative a required element of the vehicle's emissions control system.[/b][/i]" A proper tune/cold air intake/cat back, injectors and most superchargers do not "bypass, defeat, or render inoperative" the emissions control system unless you remove the cats/egr/evap. Why do you think the Ford Racing/Roush supercharger kits and other mod stuff is kosher? Because they don't turn that shit off in the tune! Also it's okay in Cali because of the CARB EOs... Yes, Cali and a select few other states(just in certain counties even) do require CARB EO parts. Cali has been like this for over a decade, absolutely nothing new. THIS is what would effectively kill the hobby, as there's VERY limited parts that currently have CARB EO certs. And it costs a shit ton apparently to get the CARB EO. If the EPA adopted the CARB EO mantra, then yes shit would be getting more real then. But EVEN then, companies can jump through the hoops to get the cert and sell their parts. It truly seems to me, the tuners do not want to pay these CARB certs, and therefor are acting like every single thing is under attack. When it is not. The 2020-2023 EPA "Initiative" SPECIFCALLY states this is about DEFEAT DEVICES and tunes that allow these defeat devices to operate. They DO NOT state that tunes in general are under attack. Again, previous companies hit and "raided" are still in business with tunes... Diesel shops, VMP... This initiative is now more public than ever in the car community, but it has been going on for like 5 years. Even if the CARB EO parts standard went into effect at the Federal level, I strongly doubt every state will comply cordially... there is a metric shit ton of counties that do not currently even have regular, basic inspections, let alone all the extra equipment and personnel needed for proper SMOG and CARB EO parts checks. Catalytic converters have been a federal offense for removing for DECADES now, and still the Feds have no way of making the states MANDATE this(the states/counties that don't do annual inspections I mean), other than a dealership needs to make sure the car has cats before selling... think about it. The bottom line is, worst case scenario has the Feds adopting CARB compliance (which is NOT what the RPM Act, nor the current EPA initiative is even about mind you), and you cannot mod unless the part you are adding has the CARB EO number. Then on top of that annua/semi annual inspections would need to occur in every single county in the country to enforce it. Parts suppliers WILL go through this process to get certified, they just won't LIKE it. Same with tuners. Will 6/7/8 second cars with VINs potentially go away? Yes. THAT is the issue I see. Some cars are truly unable to operate without a cat delete. They just can't run at that level of performance. However, for the basic hobbyist you can run cats/egr/evap on a 9 second car/road racing build, etc... [/QUOTE]
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"Clean air act"
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