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Open Track Racing
Coil springs: How stiff?
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<blockquote data-quote="David Hester" data-source="post: 6697801" data-attributes="member: 6794"><p>I agree MFE, you can't say one thing dictates how well a car handles or doesn't <em>Another reason is it causes a sharper turn-in</em>, Ok to a point - see shock setting above-<em>which can cause the rear to rotate,</em> Not so sure about that. You kinda have the chicken and egg thing going on. Does the crisp turnin cause the rear to go out or does the stiff rear suspension resist direction change and try to continue in a straight line. Of course you have to have a direction change for any of it to happen <em> for a net better cornering capability.</em> That's the good part!</p><p>With no flex or weight transfer you have a brick. I understand a GoKart with no suspension won't handle if it has too stiff a frame.</p><p>"but only after the gain in camber control has reached its end"</p><p>Ok. Camber of course is important, you want tire flat when you corner, but I'm thinking a person could set up a soft suspension with enough static camber that they won't rattle their fillings and still end up turning.</p><p></p><p> Rotation has to do with slip angle of tires. You turn the wheel, the force of the tires against the pavement causes a change in direction Notice you don't go in the direction the tire is pointed, but change in an arc. The rears are even more of an enigma, as they are still pointed straight...but they turn- rather change directions- with the car...don't that make your brain hurt? <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite9" alt=":eek:" title="Eek! :eek:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":eek:" /> They have a slip angle, too.</p><p>Over rotate and you have put more change than tires can handle and slip angle exceeds grip. You push or spin.</p><p></p><p>Everyone has done this even if they didn't realize it.</p><p>You go into a corner and figure out you have early apexed. You back off the throttle...I hope.. and the front goes down and the line tightens. (Yeah, Greg you can do the same with a throttle foot, but because you have exceded slip angle and are in a slide). Bottom line, You rotated.</p><p>You go into a corner and gas it too soon. You turn the wheel but the car is heading toward the gravel pit. You've moved weight (grip) off the front and on to the rear (that pinned in the seat feeling). You just under rotated.</p><p>I use throttle off to change direction mid corner in autoX and road racing.</p><p>Some people left foot brake, but I think I get more weight transfer with the lift. Some say it kills momentum, but I don't notice but maybe a 50 rpm drop or less. Just like the shock setting, you just need enough to change directions. Doesn't take a milli second.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="David Hester, post: 6697801, member: 6794"] I agree MFE, you can't say one thing dictates how well a car handles or doesn't [I]Another reason is it causes a sharper turn-in[/I], Ok to a point - see shock setting above-[I]which can cause the rear to rotate,[/I] Not so sure about that. You kinda have the chicken and egg thing going on. Does the crisp turnin cause the rear to go out or does the stiff rear suspension resist direction change and try to continue in a straight line. Of course you have to have a direction change for any of it to happen [I] for a net better cornering capability.[/I] That's the good part! With no flex or weight transfer you have a brick. I understand a GoKart with no suspension won't handle if it has too stiff a frame. "but only after the gain in camber control has reached its end" Ok. Camber of course is important, you want tire flat when you corner, but I'm thinking a person could set up a soft suspension with enough static camber that they won't rattle their fillings and still end up turning. Rotation has to do with slip angle of tires. You turn the wheel, the force of the tires against the pavement causes a change in direction Notice you don't go in the direction the tire is pointed, but change in an arc. The rears are even more of an enigma, as they are still pointed straight...but they turn- rather change directions- with the car...don't that make your brain hurt? :eek: They have a slip angle, too. Over rotate and you have put more change than tires can handle and slip angle exceeds grip. You push or spin. Everyone has done this even if they didn't realize it. You go into a corner and figure out you have early apexed. You back off the throttle...I hope.. and the front goes down and the line tightens. (Yeah, Greg you can do the same with a throttle foot, but because you have exceded slip angle and are in a slide). Bottom line, You rotated. You go into a corner and gas it too soon. You turn the wheel but the car is heading toward the gravel pit. You've moved weight (grip) off the front and on to the rear (that pinned in the seat feeling). You just under rotated. I use throttle off to change direction mid corner in autoX and road racing. Some people left foot brake, but I think I get more weight transfer with the lift. Some say it kills momentum, but I don't notice but maybe a 50 rpm drop or less. Just like the shock setting, you just need enough to change directions. Doesn't take a milli second. [/QUOTE]
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