Home
What's new
Latest activity
Authors
Store
Latest reviews
Search products
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
New listings
New products
New profile posts
Latest activity
Members
Current visitors
New profile posts
Search profile posts
Log in
Register
Cart
Cart
Loading…
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Search titles only
By:
Menu
Log in
Register
Navigation
Install the app
Install
More options
Change style
Contact us
Close Menu
Forums
Cobra Forums
SVT Shelby GT500
Educate me on HP levels and pump gas
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="RedVenom48" data-source="post: 15823851" data-attributes="member: 166576"><p>Realistically, each car is unique. Many times not drastically, but unique none the less. The tuners are playing a game of "very safe". I suspect that most, if not all tuners have a contract or terms of service that specifically state in the event of catastrophic failure, they hold ZERO liability. Real world states that they can be sued, and they must defend themselves even with a liability waiver. So, like the OEMs, they wont dial up a tune to 100 potential.</p><p></p><p>Assume a stock long block with factory exhaust. The compression ratio, boost pressure and valve timing all will probably be within 5% or so of all units produced. At operating temp, with proper fuel delivery, all systems operating normally etc.</p><p></p><p>Remote tune sessions, remote dyno tune sessions, data log analysis and even in person tune sessions, the "real world" variables are something they cannot control. So even though they (the big boys) have at this point tuned a massive amount of cars, with massive volumes of proven data, the tuners must account for the worst scenarios. The scientific data on X octane fuel having a resistance to detonation given Y combustion chamber temp and Z cylinder pressure with A amount of ignition timing at moment of ignition is straight forward. </p><p></p><p>Now, add in real world factors beyond your control: inconsistent pump quality octane (single hose pumps, age of fuel, quality of storage, delivery to correct tanks). Things not in your control: component wear, carbon deposits, quality of parts used at the factory. Things in your control: regular maintenance to the engine, oil quality, air filter cleanliness, injector cleanliness based on quality brand fuel (detergents), ensuring proper working order etc. These variables all contribute to X octane resisting detonation.</p><p></p><p>In your case, with a wickedly bad ass build with strong components, the tuner still needs to cover his ass. With all the mechanical variables now fairly contained, pump gas is the biggest wild card. </p><p></p><p>E85 (verified by sampler every fill up), 100 octane unleaded pump race fuel (assuming proper storage), and actual race fuel from barrels are about the only real fuel consistency a tuner can rely on. It must be the only fuel the car is supplied with. No torco or octanium either! With 100+ octane available, your mechanical parts are now the weak link, but the tuner now has the biggest unknown fairly controlled.</p><p></p><p>The power level your tuner gave you wasnt the maximum power that 93 can support. Rather its a power output estimate based on a safe tune given all variable potentials. Id estimate that the OEMs are at about 70% total potential for a super safe margin of error combined with all the regulatory compliance they must deal with.</p><p></p><p>Other tuners trying to make a name for themselves or tuners with a SOLID liability waiver signed by the customer can push 93 as far as they dare. There is a scientific limit as to what it will withstand, and any tuner with knowledge of this can simply dial it up to that limit. The real world variables will ultimately decide how long that tune will keep the engine alive. Makes a quick buck, can draw a lot of potential customers in. But if their initial customers blow up their engines and take to the internet to rant, that company is finished.</p><p></p><p>They want happy customers, with their tunes being powerful but safe. Its a perfect example of cover your ass.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="RedVenom48, post: 15823851, member: 166576"] Realistically, each car is unique. Many times not drastically, but unique none the less. The tuners are playing a game of "very safe". I suspect that most, if not all tuners have a contract or terms of service that specifically state in the event of catastrophic failure, they hold ZERO liability. Real world states that they can be sued, and they must defend themselves even with a liability waiver. So, like the OEMs, they wont dial up a tune to 100 potential. Assume a stock long block with factory exhaust. The compression ratio, boost pressure and valve timing all will probably be within 5% or so of all units produced. At operating temp, with proper fuel delivery, all systems operating normally etc. Remote tune sessions, remote dyno tune sessions, data log analysis and even in person tune sessions, the "real world" variables are something they cannot control. So even though they (the big boys) have at this point tuned a massive amount of cars, with massive volumes of proven data, the tuners must account for the worst scenarios. The scientific data on X octane fuel having a resistance to detonation given Y combustion chamber temp and Z cylinder pressure with A amount of ignition timing at moment of ignition is straight forward. Now, add in real world factors beyond your control: inconsistent pump quality octane (single hose pumps, age of fuel, quality of storage, delivery to correct tanks). Things not in your control: component wear, carbon deposits, quality of parts used at the factory. Things in your control: regular maintenance to the engine, oil quality, air filter cleanliness, injector cleanliness based on quality brand fuel (detergents), ensuring proper working order etc. These variables all contribute to X octane resisting detonation. In your case, with a wickedly bad ass build with strong components, the tuner still needs to cover his ass. With all the mechanical variables now fairly contained, pump gas is the biggest wild card. E85 (verified by sampler every fill up), 100 octane unleaded pump race fuel (assuming proper storage), and actual race fuel from barrels are about the only real fuel consistency a tuner can rely on. It must be the only fuel the car is supplied with. No torco or octanium either! With 100+ octane available, your mechanical parts are now the weak link, but the tuner now has the biggest unknown fairly controlled. The power level your tuner gave you wasnt the maximum power that 93 can support. Rather its a power output estimate based on a safe tune given all variable potentials. Id estimate that the OEMs are at about 70% total potential for a super safe margin of error combined with all the regulatory compliance they must deal with. Other tuners trying to make a name for themselves or tuners with a SOLID liability waiver signed by the customer can push 93 as far as they dare. There is a scientific limit as to what it will withstand, and any tuner with knowledge of this can simply dial it up to that limit. The real world variables will ultimately decide how long that tune will keep the engine alive. Makes a quick buck, can draw a lot of potential customers in. But if their initial customers blow up their engines and take to the internet to rant, that company is finished. They want happy customers, with their tunes being powerful but safe. Its a perfect example of cover your ass. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Cobra Forums
SVT Shelby GT500
Educate me on HP levels and pump gas
Top