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SVTPerformance's Chain of Restaurants
Road Kill Drive-Thru
Finally got my chance with a ZL1
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<blockquote data-quote="Sick03Vert" data-source="post: 13341564" data-attributes="member: 127357"><p>1. The whole argument is pretty much invalid, as you'll never find a stock Cobra anymore. :shrug:</p><p></p><p>2. If you need proof, and only go off mag times, then sure, Evan Smith has the best time. :shrug: Without tracking down every time slip across the country, I don't think I'd go so far as to say there's no proof out there to be found if one were obsessed enough to search for it....which I, for one, am not.</p><p></p><p>Honestly, I still don't see the point in arguing .2 or .3 seconds here nor there. If a race is that close, driver error on one of the two cars will make up the difference. :shrug: </p><p></p><p>In the races I've seen between Terminators and ZL1's, there's a MUCH bigger gap than .2 seconds. And some of those cars aren't all that modded. Besides, how do you know the ZL1 is stock? If you aren't there, then you don't. :shrug:</p><p></p><p>All I'm going to say is, I've seen plenty of videos of ZL1's getting hammered by Cobras, GT's, etc. and NONE of a ZL1 beating a Cobra, GT, etc. And even if I did, it wouldn't overcome the fact that the ZL1 underperforms for it's cost and supposedly God-like powertrain. :shrug:</p><p></p><p>10 years and a new platform later, GM's Camaro is STILL behind the Terminators in terms of sheer performance. There's really no debating that. </p><p></p><p>I'm not a brand loyalist either, as I've owned 2 5th Gen Camaros. One was the 2012 LFX V6 that didn't have enough power to get out of it's own way and NEVER achieved the claimed MPG numbers. The other was a 2012 SS coupe with the L99 automatic. That car ate the drive belt and a/c belt at 2500 miles. Not sure if you know, but the belts on the new Camaros do NOT have tensioners. So when they need replacement, it is a real bitch to get the damn thing off and get the new one on. :cuss::mj:</p><p></p><p>The GM dealer I worked at replaced both under warranty but gave me crap for abusing the car. I thought that was funny since I drove the car SUPER easy during the break-in period (that the dealer said doesn't exist, yet the owner's manual says does) and never tracked it. Hell, I never really even raced that car because it's in a class of it's own really. It's too fast to race Challenger R/T's, but far too slow to race Mustang GT's. </p><p></p><p>My ownership with Camaros gave me the following impressions:</p><p></p><p>1. 6.2L V8's should have A LOT more pull than that. Don't blame the transmission either, as supposedly the auto trans in the SS models is great. </p><p></p><p>2. The paint quality is shit. Flies left chips in the hood, and I'm not shitting you. You could, I mean this literally, take your fingernail and scratch the paint off the car. LITERALLY. Not to mention there's orange peel throughout the paintjob. </p><p></p><p>3. Quality sucks. Destroying belts that fast is retarded. I had a $40k car that squealed like a '88 Honda after just 2k miles. Are. You. Serious?</p><p></p><p>4. The car drank gas like there was no tomorrow, and, of course, it took only premium gas. I didn't buy it for MPG, but the only car I've ever driven that got worse mileage was an '04 GTO with a 4-speed auto. That car almost had to have a tanker follow it around. </p><p></p><p>5. Fuse pull. Why, oh why, is this necessary? The ECM likes to pull timing if it detects lower level octane fuel. That's fine and all, but once the low octane is gone and the high octane is back, the computer is too stupid to change the octane tables back around. So instead of 400 horsepower (my ass dyno says that car had nowhere near that much in truth), you get around 370 horsepower, which in a car the size of the Titanic is barely enough to move it. The fix? Go under the hood, pull two fuses from the fuse box, and let the car sit overnight. Then, in the morning, put the fuses back in, start the car, and let it learn the new mapping over the next 50 miles. :bored: Now THAT is advanced technology. :nonono:</p><p></p><p>6. Overpriced. I had a 2003 Mach 1 with intake and exhaust before that car. It felt much faster to my butt dyno. I paid $16k for the Mach with 30k miles on it. I paid $40k for the Camaro SS with 85 miles on it at the time of delivery. There should have been no comparison, but that was not the case.</p><p></p><p>7. A boat with a blower is still a boat. The Cobra isn't the fastest car out there, but at least it feels genuinely fast. The Camaro had no driver feel to it and was like driving a Crown Vic with a V8. It did NOT feel like a sports car. I'm sorry, but it didn't. </p><p></p><p>8. Field of vision. Basically, you drive a Camaro like you would drive any other car...if you had your neck in a brace. There's NO visibility out back or to the sides. So the side view mirrors become the single most important feature of the car as they are your only hope of preventing accidents during lane changes. In the Cobra, I have the large back glass and great visibility. When your Camaro needs a backup camera to park correctly, there is a problem. </p><p></p><p>The one thing I will give the Camaro is I think it looks cool. I'm impressed with how close the designers were able to stay to the original concept car, and it's a love it or hate it look, but I like it. That said, I think GM is on crack for asking $40k+ for SS models. And at $60k+, you should have your head examined for buying a ZL1. You can get a C6Z06, supercharged with plenty of goodies, for that...and it would molest the ZL1 not only in the quarter, but on the autocross, which everyone seems to suddenly think is so important since it's common knowledge the ZL1 falls on its face in straight-line performance. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, those are just a few reasons why I hate the Camaro and why the ZL1 is an overhyped failure in my opinion.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sick03Vert, post: 13341564, member: 127357"] 1. The whole argument is pretty much invalid, as you'll never find a stock Cobra anymore. :shrug: 2. If you need proof, and only go off mag times, then sure, Evan Smith has the best time. :shrug: Without tracking down every time slip across the country, I don't think I'd go so far as to say there's no proof out there to be found if one were obsessed enough to search for it....which I, for one, am not. Honestly, I still don't see the point in arguing .2 or .3 seconds here nor there. If a race is that close, driver error on one of the two cars will make up the difference. :shrug: In the races I've seen between Terminators and ZL1's, there's a MUCH bigger gap than .2 seconds. And some of those cars aren't all that modded. Besides, how do you know the ZL1 is stock? If you aren't there, then you don't. :shrug: All I'm going to say is, I've seen plenty of videos of ZL1's getting hammered by Cobras, GT's, etc. and NONE of a ZL1 beating a Cobra, GT, etc. And even if I did, it wouldn't overcome the fact that the ZL1 underperforms for it's cost and supposedly God-like powertrain. :shrug: 10 years and a new platform later, GM's Camaro is STILL behind the Terminators in terms of sheer performance. There's really no debating that. I'm not a brand loyalist either, as I've owned 2 5th Gen Camaros. One was the 2012 LFX V6 that didn't have enough power to get out of it's own way and NEVER achieved the claimed MPG numbers. The other was a 2012 SS coupe with the L99 automatic. That car ate the drive belt and a/c belt at 2500 miles. Not sure if you know, but the belts on the new Camaros do NOT have tensioners. So when they need replacement, it is a real bitch to get the damn thing off and get the new one on. :cuss::mj: The GM dealer I worked at replaced both under warranty but gave me crap for abusing the car. I thought that was funny since I drove the car SUPER easy during the break-in period (that the dealer said doesn't exist, yet the owner's manual says does) and never tracked it. Hell, I never really even raced that car because it's in a class of it's own really. It's too fast to race Challenger R/T's, but far too slow to race Mustang GT's. My ownership with Camaros gave me the following impressions: 1. 6.2L V8's should have A LOT more pull than that. Don't blame the transmission either, as supposedly the auto trans in the SS models is great. 2. The paint quality is shit. Flies left chips in the hood, and I'm not shitting you. You could, I mean this literally, take your fingernail and scratch the paint off the car. LITERALLY. Not to mention there's orange peel throughout the paintjob. 3. Quality sucks. Destroying belts that fast is retarded. I had a $40k car that squealed like a '88 Honda after just 2k miles. Are. You. Serious? 4. The car drank gas like there was no tomorrow, and, of course, it took only premium gas. I didn't buy it for MPG, but the only car I've ever driven that got worse mileage was an '04 GTO with a 4-speed auto. That car almost had to have a tanker follow it around. 5. Fuse pull. Why, oh why, is this necessary? The ECM likes to pull timing if it detects lower level octane fuel. That's fine and all, but once the low octane is gone and the high octane is back, the computer is too stupid to change the octane tables back around. So instead of 400 horsepower (my ass dyno says that car had nowhere near that much in truth), you get around 370 horsepower, which in a car the size of the Titanic is barely enough to move it. The fix? Go under the hood, pull two fuses from the fuse box, and let the car sit overnight. Then, in the morning, put the fuses back in, start the car, and let it learn the new mapping over the next 50 miles. :bored: Now THAT is advanced technology. :nonono: 6. Overpriced. I had a 2003 Mach 1 with intake and exhaust before that car. It felt much faster to my butt dyno. I paid $16k for the Mach with 30k miles on it. I paid $40k for the Camaro SS with 85 miles on it at the time of delivery. There should have been no comparison, but that was not the case. 7. A boat with a blower is still a boat. The Cobra isn't the fastest car out there, but at least it feels genuinely fast. The Camaro had no driver feel to it and was like driving a Crown Vic with a V8. It did NOT feel like a sports car. I'm sorry, but it didn't. 8. Field of vision. Basically, you drive a Camaro like you would drive any other car...if you had your neck in a brace. There's NO visibility out back or to the sides. So the side view mirrors become the single most important feature of the car as they are your only hope of preventing accidents during lane changes. In the Cobra, I have the large back glass and great visibility. When your Camaro needs a backup camera to park correctly, there is a problem. The one thing I will give the Camaro is I think it looks cool. I'm impressed with how close the designers were able to stay to the original concept car, and it's a love it or hate it look, but I like it. That said, I think GM is on crack for asking $40k+ for SS models. And at $60k+, you should have your head examined for buying a ZL1. You can get a C6Z06, supercharged with plenty of goodies, for that...and it would molest the ZL1 not only in the quarter, but on the autocross, which everyone seems to suddenly think is so important since it's common knowledge the ZL1 falls on its face in straight-line performance. Anyway, those are just a few reasons why I hate the Camaro and why the ZL1 is an overhyped failure in my opinion. [/QUOTE]
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Road Kill Drive-Thru
Finally got my chance with a ZL1
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